WWW.OSXP.NET Gone
Monday, April 22, 2002 by Darkman210 | Discussion: WinCustomize News
Site taken down due to request from Apple
Sorry
April 22, 2002
VIA E-MAIL
RE: NOTICE OF INFRINGEMENT
Dear ********:
We represent Apple Computer, Inc. ("Apple") with respect to its intellectual
property matters. It has come to our attention that you are offering for
download on your web site various skins, themes, wallpaper, icons, and other
materials for Windows XP, which are identical and/or confusingly similar to
Apple's Aqua theme for its MAC OS X (see
http://www.osxp.net/osxpindex.html).
You should be aware that your actions constitute infringement of Apple's
intellectual property rights under various federal and state trademark,
copyright and unfair competition laws, which may subject you to serious
civil and criminal penalties. By publishing these infringing skins and
allowing the public to access and download them from your web site, you also
are engaging in contributory infringement of Apple's copyrights, trademarks
and trade dress. Your unauthorized actions also may damage our client's
reputation and result in the dilution of our client's famous trademarks.
Accordingly, we demand that you immediately cease and desist from
distributing all skins, themes, wallpaper, icons and other materials for
Windows XP which are identical and/or confusingly similar to Apple's Aqua
interface for its Mac OS X.
Please note that a letter may also be sent to your Internet access provider
as notice that its services are being used to infringe the trademarks and
copyrights of others.
We ask that you immediately send written confirmation that you have complied
with our demand. The foregoing is not intended as a complete statement of
Apple's position on this matter, and nothing herein shall be deemed to
constitute a waiver of any of Apple's rights or remedies at law, in equity
or otherwise, all of which are expressly reserved.
Sincerely,
Fabricio Vayra
202/857-6130
[email protected]
Arent Fox Kintner Plotkin & Kahn, PLLC
1050 Connecticut Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20036-5339
Phone 202/857-6000
Fax 202/857-6395
www.arentfox.com
Sorry
April 22, 2002
VIA E-MAIL
RE: NOTICE OF INFRINGEMENT
Dear ********:
We represent Apple Computer, Inc. ("Apple") with respect to its intellectual
property matters. It has come to our attention that you are offering for
download on your web site various skins, themes, wallpaper, icons, and other
materials for Windows XP, which are identical and/or confusingly similar to
Apple's Aqua theme for its MAC OS X (see
http://www.osxp.net/osxpindex.html).
You should be aware that your actions constitute infringement of Apple's
intellectual property rights under various federal and state trademark,
copyright and unfair competition laws, which may subject you to serious
civil and criminal penalties. By publishing these infringing skins and
allowing the public to access and download them from your web site, you also
are engaging in contributory infringement of Apple's copyrights, trademarks
and trade dress. Your unauthorized actions also may damage our client's
reputation and result in the dilution of our client's famous trademarks.
Accordingly, we demand that you immediately cease and desist from
distributing all skins, themes, wallpaper, icons and other materials for
Windows XP which are identical and/or confusingly similar to Apple's Aqua
interface for its Mac OS X.
Please note that a letter may also be sent to your Internet access provider
as notice that its services are being used to infringe the trademarks and
copyrights of others.
We ask that you immediately send written confirmation that you have complied
with our demand. The foregoing is not intended as a complete statement of
Apple's position on this matter, and nothing herein shall be deemed to
constitute a waiver of any of Apple's rights or remedies at law, in equity
or otherwise, all of which are expressly reserved.
Sincerely,
Fabricio Vayra
202/857-6130
[email protected]
Arent Fox Kintner Plotkin & Kahn, PLLC
1050 Connecticut Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20036-5339
Phone 202/857-6000
Fax 202/857-6395
www.arentfox.com
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grayhaze
Reply #2 Monday, April 22, 2002 7:10 PM
Reply #2 Monday, April 22, 2002 7:10 PM
jester>> What do you mean Apple can't innovate? If they didn't have the ability to innovate, OSXP.net never would have existed in the first place.
All they're doing is protecting their intellectual property, which they paid thousands of dollars in development costs to create. Sure, they can be pretty heavy-handed, but in this day and age it's the only approach that makes people sit up and listen.
It's a shame the site got shut down, but surely it's better that innovation and originality prosper? Would you rather have a choice of good original skins, or spend your days wading through page after page of OSX and XP immitations?
All they're doing is protecting their intellectual property, which they paid thousands of dollars in development costs to create. Sure, they can be pretty heavy-handed, but in this day and age it's the only approach that makes people sit up and listen.
It's a shame the site got shut down, but surely it's better that innovation and originality prosper? Would you rather have a choice of good original skins, or spend your days wading through page after page of OSX and XP immitations?
JanusXP
Reply #3 Monday, April 22, 2002 7:24 PM
Reply #3 Monday, April 22, 2002 7:24 PM
I agree with grayhaze. Apple is very innovative to create a design that is envied by almost everybody in the entire universe. I support them in protecting their design as much as I'd support an artist from here stopping somebody from ripping their skins without their permission.
MikeB314
Reply #4 Monday, April 22, 2002 9:38 PM
Reply #4 Monday, April 22, 2002 9:38 PM
It certainly seems to me that it was the folks at OSXP.net who lacked the ability to innovate.
jtfolden
Reply #5 Tuesday, April 23, 2002 12:07 AM
Reply #5 Tuesday, April 23, 2002 12:07 AM
As anyone who's seen my body of work will realize - I absolutely LOVE to make themes/skins based on other Operating Systems. It's the only reason I ever got into skinning. However: if Apple, Sun, IBM or whoever were to claim infringement and ask that my stuff be removed, I'd certainly respect and comply with their request and I wouldn't complain one bit. That's the risk of doing a GUI/OS port.
michael havard
Reply #6 Tuesday, April 23, 2002 3:01 AM
Reply #6 Tuesday, April 23, 2002 3:01 AM
Infringement implies loss. Apple is losing nothing because of the particular "infringement" occurring. The people using the skins don't feel the need to move to Mac just for the "look". Therefore Apple is just reinforcing the reasons why NOT to purchase a Mac. It's like the RIAA's crying foul about people who never bought music in the first place. "Piracy worldwide is costing us billions (in Afghanistan)".
Suddenly everyone is very un-American.
jtfolden - there's a line that should be held. Someone just throwing their legal weight around shouldn't just be caved into because "they said so". It should be the right thing to do, because you truly feel that they have the legal right to stop you. Assuming that you do feel that way then you should just stop all skinning now since I'm sure I can show that your designs infringe on my designs. I was first and you should cease and desist. Meanwhile I'll make money off of what you gladly gave away for free.
Suddenly everyone is very un-American.
jtfolden - there's a line that should be held. Someone just throwing their legal weight around shouldn't just be caved into because "they said so". It should be the right thing to do, because you truly feel that they have the legal right to stop you. Assuming that you do feel that way then you should just stop all skinning now since I'm sure I can show that your designs infringe on my designs. I was first and you should cease and desist. Meanwhile I'll make money off of what you gladly gave away for free.
c242
Reply #7 Tuesday, April 23, 2002 4:24 AM
Reply #7 Tuesday, April 23, 2002 4:24 AM
Hmm, didn't we have this very same thing about 6 months to one year ago ? So I guess they should have known... 
T-Man
Reply #8 Tuesday, April 23, 2002 9:10 AM
Reply #8 Tuesday, April 23, 2002 9:10 AM
When I first saw OSXP.net I was thinking 'What are they doing? Apple is going to be breathing down their neck as soon as they find out about them!'
Why anyone at this stage of the game would want to try and distribute anything similar to Aqua is beyond me.
Why anyone at this stage of the game would want to try and distribute anything similar to Aqua is beyond me.
jtfolden
Reply #9 Tuesday, April 23, 2002 11:37 AM
Reply #9 Tuesday, April 23, 2002 11:37 AM
umm, no, Michael... I'd simply remove them because I respect the people and the work that went into the creation of the original OS GUI in question and not so much just because "they said so". In any case, IBM hasn't stepped up and asked me to dump my OS/2 stuff yet so... 
mormegil
Reply #10 Tuesday, April 23, 2002 11:43 AM
Reply #10 Tuesday, April 23, 2002 11:43 AM
No Supprise, I almost had to change my Icons from "Aqua" to "Cobalt", For fear of geting seud. 
Xymantix
Reply #11 Tuesday, April 23, 2002 12:40 PM
Reply #11 Tuesday, April 23, 2002 12:40 PM
Michael said 'Apple is losing nothing because of the particular "infringement" occurring.' To me this is a generalization that isn't true. It's not an easy thing to quantify, but they definitely do stand to lose. Maybe it's the 'unique OSX look' that is now no longer unique. What are the ramifications of that? Perhaps a couple of people loved the look so much they would have bought a Mac but instead bought XP and skinned it => lost revenue for Apple.
At any rate, it's difficult to prove loss as it may or may not have occurred yet and even if it has it's difficult to measure. That's why the email said '... result in the dilution of our client's famous trademarks'. How to you quantify dilution? Even if you're pro-porting, I'm sure that you'd agree that, when done to the extreme at which the Aqua ports have been done, it definitely does result in dilution of Apple's creativity and unique interface.
At any rate, it's difficult to prove loss as it may or may not have occurred yet and even if it has it's difficult to measure. That's why the email said '... result in the dilution of our client's famous trademarks'. How to you quantify dilution? Even if you're pro-porting, I'm sure that you'd agree that, when done to the extreme at which the Aqua ports have been done, it definitely does result in dilution of Apple's creativity and unique interface.
Rick-o
Reply #12 Tuesday, April 23, 2002 1:12 PM
Reply #12 Tuesday, April 23, 2002 1:12 PM
As being the one of the persons involved with OSXP.net, in response to MikeB314....a lot of hard work and time went into the site, as well as the creation and coversion of products offered. As far as "innovation" is concerned, we just wanted to offer the "OSX" look for others who did not have a Mac. In fact that is what prompted me to buy myself a brand new Mac. People at Aqua-Soft.org are actually spending a lot of time to bring programs and the like to XP that are enjoyed on other platforms. ACTUAL PROGRAMMING. So as far as innovation goes, I think "skinning" an app is just as innovative as actually creating a program from scratch, replacing .dll files and getting them to work together and then offering them as free without a penny earned. Not to mention we can come here and see some of our work (i.e. icons/object bar themes) and the like blatantly bitten. Oh well. What can you do, except open another website
MurkWorks
Reply #13 Tuesday, April 23, 2002 1:34 PM
Reply #13 Tuesday, April 23, 2002 1:34 PM
Thank goodness you CAN'T get any OS X looking skins HERE!.
Rick-o
Reply #15 Tuesday, April 23, 2002 4:45 PM
Reply #15 Tuesday, April 23, 2002 4:45 PM
Ok I'm listening........oh well didn't hear anything worthwhile.
Rick-o
Reply #16 Tuesday, April 23, 2002 4:45 PM
Reply #16 Tuesday, April 23, 2002 4:45 PM
Ok I'm listening........oh well didn't hear anything worthwhile.
jester
Reply #17 Tuesday, April 23, 2002 5:18 PM
Reply #17 Tuesday, April 23, 2002 5:18 PM
If you guys really want to get picky, Apple never "innovated" in the first place. The whole "graphical OS" was developed by Xerox's PARC facility. Apple adapted it for their use, then Microsoft adapted it for their use, and so on, and so on.
If anyone should be litigating, it should be Xerox.
If anyone should be litigating, it should be Xerox.
michael havard
Reply #18 Tuesday, April 23, 2002 5:29 PM
Reply #18 Tuesday, April 23, 2002 5:29 PM
jtfolden - thank you for clarifying the issue of respect.
Xymantix - I guess part of the problem is the issue of Trademark - is the entire OSX interface trademarked or is apple only upset over the use of OSX, APPLE, and AQUA (two of those words it should not have been able to trademark). So if we called the skin set WATER and used RED FRUIT and described Mac as My Aunts Computer could they still complain about infringement.
Mostly this is just bullying. Instead of giving the infringing artist a notice that tells them specifically where they are infringing and how they can become non-infringing and where that boundery is, they threaten. If I rip someones site off they might e-mail and flame me for being a jacka$$. But if they politely tell me that they don't appreciate being taken and not getting credit and that could I please change X Y and z and give notice as to the original author. That course of action would be much more mature.
Can Apple legitimately state that you are infringing on their trade dress when the "style" of dress (glass buttons, and interlace effects, and transparency) existed prior to OSX. Is it the combination of the effects or the pixel perfect implementation.
Xymantix - I guess part of the problem is the issue of Trademark - is the entire OSX interface trademarked or is apple only upset over the use of OSX, APPLE, and AQUA (two of those words it should not have been able to trademark). So if we called the skin set WATER and used RED FRUIT and described Mac as My Aunts Computer could they still complain about infringement.
Mostly this is just bullying. Instead of giving the infringing artist a notice that tells them specifically where they are infringing and how they can become non-infringing and where that boundery is, they threaten. If I rip someones site off they might e-mail and flame me for being a jacka$$. But if they politely tell me that they don't appreciate being taken and not getting credit and that could I please change X Y and z and give notice as to the original author. That course of action would be much more mature.
Can Apple legitimately state that you are infringing on their trade dress when the "style" of dress (glass buttons, and interlace effects, and transparency) existed prior to OSX. Is it the combination of the effects or the pixel perfect implementation.
Wandy
Reply #19 Tuesday, April 23, 2002 5:37 PM
Reply #19 Tuesday, April 23, 2002 5:37 PM
What is Apple's problem, ok their intellectual property has been infringed, so what.
They released the iPod, surely that product is an infringement of the Music Industries copyrights. You can play MP3 files that you have either downloaded from the net, or ripped to your pc/mac.
If they had the foresight to release a version of MAC OS for the PC then would there be a problem. Afteral you can by Virtual PC for Mac, which enables you to use Windows. So come on Apple, show you have some balls and do it. Write a version of OSX for PC, provide us with an alternative to Microsoft. OSX is based on UNIX, Linux is based on UNIX. Give us an OS that is intuitive and doesn't take a gig to install. Retail for a ton (English slang for £100)and see what response you get.
They released the iPod, surely that product is an infringement of the Music Industries copyrights. You can play MP3 files that you have either downloaded from the net, or ripped to your pc/mac.
If they had the foresight to release a version of MAC OS for the PC then would there be a problem. Afteral you can by Virtual PC for Mac, which enables you to use Windows. So come on Apple, show you have some balls and do it. Write a version of OSX for PC, provide us with an alternative to Microsoft. OSX is based on UNIX, Linux is based on UNIX. Give us an OS that is intuitive and doesn't take a gig to install. Retail for a ton (English slang for £100)and see what response you get.
grayhaze
Reply #20 Tuesday, April 23, 2002 6:45 PM
Reply #20 Tuesday, April 23, 2002 6:45 PM
I'm so tired of this argument. The same argument goes on every day on just about every skinning site, and still there are a vast number of people who just don't understand copyright. It just ends up feeling like you're banging your head against a brick wall when you continually try to explain the reality of copyright law to people who basically don't give a damn about the law in the first place. There is no 'politeness' required where the law is concerned. You don't see the police calmly standing talking to a criminal as he robs a bank at gunpoint - "Excuse me sir, but in robbing this bank you are breaking the law. Might I speak with you for a moment so that I may explain what steps you need to take in order to not break the law?"
When will people understand? If you break the law, you can't expect the victims to handle you with kid gloves. In this case, Apple were more than polite. Legally, the first contact they could have had with the OSXP guys was a court summons. The fact that they wrote them a rather polite, concise letter first shows that they're not as cold and heartless as so many Mac-bashers would have you believe.
The fact is, if you do something illegal, expect to get heat. If you don't want the trouble, don't do it in the first place. Or, in other words, if you can't do the time, don't do the crime.
When will people understand? If you break the law, you can't expect the victims to handle you with kid gloves. In this case, Apple were more than polite. Legally, the first contact they could have had with the OSXP guys was a court summons. The fact that they wrote them a rather polite, concise letter first shows that they're not as cold and heartless as so many Mac-bashers would have you believe.
The fact is, if you do something illegal, expect to get heat. If you don't want the trouble, don't do it in the first place. Or, in other words, if you can't do the time, don't do the crime.
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Reply #1 Monday, April 22, 2002 6:41 PM