There's a lot of truth in Jafo's response #16

and in RnD's  #19 

I'm back... had to go fix my sister's puter....

Yes, WC is a skinning site... well that's it's primary purpose, with constant skin uploads daily, but the forums are a place for social interaction also, and without the joke, game, fun threads, they'd be all but dead... not a lot else goes on lately.  And what's wrong with a bit of fun/levity, anyhow?   It sure breaks the monotony of the bitching, whining, unpleasant stuff, don't it? 

More to the point, the fun threads help create a sense of community for the participants, and so what if they're not all skinners, with much skin-speak to share, a community is made up of a group of diverse individuals and draws its strength from a diversity of thoughts and interests, etc.  So yeah, let's be realistic, the community depends on diversity to survive, otherwise it falls into a rut that'd soon become boring.

Well put, starkers. I'm sure there are plenty of folks who welcome the social interaction, the opportunity to learn stuff about skinning and computers and get to know the people who are trying to help... sure, being able to do it is important and no one puts any brakes on skinners discussing settings or techniques...quite the opposite.

I wouldn't have known anything about image processing without the fun we had in the "Pick your face" thread, nor had fun loitering in Ed's, munkeh's and yes, vStyler's game (word association) too...and Fuzzy's beginning to explain how to use psp...and his HDR's which are beginning to move me through PSP X2.

All these things and the interaction build a sense of Community. It really doesn't hurt to have some fun along the way. As for images being appropriate or not, I leave that to common sense and when that's absent, Moderation.

awww poor skinhit, don't worry bud I will stick up for ya 

When I joined here 5 years ago, I was pretty much homebound. I had had a difficult spinal fusion and at the time was not certain I would ever be able to return to work. I had a lot of time on my hands. This community was a great place for me and kept me busy, active, and challenged. I learned so much just the first few months here. I was able to devote a lot of time to the site.

Since then , I have seen a lot of folks leave WC. Some have moved over to other sites, some have just left skinning in general. I interacted with a few of these people. One bought me my first sub to ODN. Some were and still are heavily committed to skinning and or graphics. SOme of them were huge contributors to skinning, to the site, and to the community in general. Not many made it known why they left and I haven't asked, respecting their right to privacy. I miss them all here. I often wonder if anyone from WC admin has reached out to any of them and if not, why.

The past couple years, I feel things have changed. (Sorry, Jafo) The talk of 'cliks' and people working against each other is very disturbing. Either it was not as prevalant before or wasn't brought up before, but I don't recall this kind of dissention when I first joined. I honestly believe that the creation of 'Master' status had some influence with this. I don't blame the Masters or the creation of that level,. I think it was an unforseen and unfortunate side effect.

Masters and other folks who were once extremely helpful are now very busy. Life. New opportunities. Maybe some folks just get burned out or distracted. I don't know. I don't see a lot of the names I used to offering help or guidance. Some of the changes taking place (Windows 7, DesktopX moving to new scripting, etc) happen quickly and often without much in the way of updated tutorials or resources. This leaves some folks behind. It also ties up some of the more experienced folks with catching up and adapting.

I thought that part of being a Master had to do with Masters offering tutorials , not just private one on one help. I think there were a lot of good intentions with the Master-level, but some of them have fallen to the wayside or are just overlooked in general. I appreciate the offers for help from a lot of people with skinning, but the lack of tutorials available for 'anyone' gives the perception that it's all a big secret that no one wants to share. It seems to me that making tuorials, full tutorials- available would benefit WC and Stardock.

I Have a rough idea or opinion of where WC is heading. I'm not sure I like it, but only time can tell. My impression is that everything is being streamlined, right down to the community. I peeped at the new site and it seems that community is no longer a priority. Revenue is. I understand the economy is bad. In my own work, we are being forced to do more with less. We also struggle there as well to maintain a level of comrodary that is threatened by these new demands. I don't see the co-workers I like to hang with as much and it seems less and less every passing week. We are all to busy and struggling to keep up with all the changes and all that is expected.

I see the same here. I think even some Masters see these changes as kind of a threat, for lack of a better word, and wonder where it will leave them in the end. It's becoming very competitive in what I am not sure is a good way.

There are a few skinning sites left out there. Some so overblown, the sense of community that I belive made WC what it was/is is impossible. Some are so small, people tend to just bypass them. Some give the appearance of being 'exclusive' or 'elite' and will attract those into that and only welcome/admit those they deem worthy. WC was unique. Is unique. Everyone is welcomed by a large amount of the community. People have debated, argued, insulted, and been banned. They have also reconciled, forgiven, made-up, and laughed about it. They have worn their hearts on their sleeves and have reached out in great times of need for help and to give help. People have fought for their lives openly in the forums. They have gotten compassion, inspiration, and love. They have also given it. We have seen children born and family members pass. What I see coming is  cold and threatens to diminish the feeling of family here. I hope I am wrong.

If I seem pessimistic, I apologize. Not my intention to. I love this site. I hate the thought of it becoming less of a community and more of a corporate billboard. In the end, though, the folks that feel the way I do about WC are the only ones who can save it and keep it that way. You can change the appearance and structure of every aspect of the site, but if I have learned anything in my life, it's that there is almost always a work around. You just have to be committed to keeping the spirit alive.

I agree with EVERY word you just said Po................ that's all i have to say.........

Thanks to all the folks reading this thread and leaving a reply.

vStyler, I look forward to your sites revamping.

What's going on at the other sites like Skinning.Net and all the others?

I never like to see members of the community leave, but I do understand that everyday folks have to make decisions that satisfy their needs.

Philly . . I *have* to assume that your post was all code asking about me. 

I'm doing all right, getting good grades.
The future's so bright . .
I have to wear shades. 

Over teh years there has been lots of change in skinnables, adn skinning, and skinning sites.

People who have an interest in creating and using will roll with those changes or will move on.

The point shouldn't be about what teh community is doing.  It should be about what *you* are doing because "you all" ARE the community.

Happy skinning!

Good to hear that things are going good for you Zubaz.

Ahh, those good grades you are getting Zubaz, I'm going to take it the classes have nothing to do with 'typing or spelling'. 

Coming off a holiday, especially a "big one" like Christmas is a tough one.  Lots of work to catch-up on, getting things started for the new year, etc. 

Communities like WC have always had up and down periods as do most other communities.  I think the new site will bring some fresh energy back.  About the new site and the "lack" of community, I think that is a bit off.  The real community is on the forums and those aren't really being touched. 

The downside in the community now is the behind-the-scene groups that are trying to become a controlling force, and thus bringing some negativity to the forums.  I guess that is how it progresses when skinning has become more "mainstream", but what they don't realize is that negativity is driving off up and coming skinners which is not good for the community overall.

Bringing new people in should be a focus, not the opposite.

Island Dog, surely we don't have members of the community doing this.  I can't imagine that an established member of the community, skinner or not, would even think about doing something like that. 

Things to look forward to in 2010:

New WC -  Hopefully it will go into public beta this week or next.  There is still much to be done, but the site has been streamlined and much more clean. 

More focus on content -  We need new skinners, we need new artists, and we need help bringing them to the community.  So many people used to post skins here, and many have gone.

Improve WC Wiki -  As I posted today, I want to get the WC Wiki up to date, and full of information so people won't be so intimidated by skinning, or at least able to grab some basic tutorials to get started.

More community projects - The Holiday suite was a blast.  Lots of people involved, and it turned out great.  More of this please!

Things to improve:

New level - I'd like to see a new level, something like a "veterans" level for people who aren't "master skinners", but are still valuable members of the community.

Master program - I'm not that pleased with it right now.  Not sure what can be done off-hand, but some improvements and changes need to be made.

Appreciate the information Island Dog.

One thing that strongly contributed to this expectation (IMO) was the attachment of $$ to skins. I'm not against it but it did change the expectation level.

Now since the advent of Vista and now 7, the skinning apps are no longer able to generate a 100% completely customized theme. Some things just cannot be skinned from what the developers tell us. Thus, the quality perception has gone down. Yet the $$ attachment is still there. You get skins that just can't look as complete and software with less features and abilities. 

I myself am FAR more hesitant to spend money on a WB skin or create any now that I'm entirely away from XP because the value is no longer there and were being told it just can't be done.

We also have a revamp of DX coming up in which we are told that many of the things that made it great and easier to use are simply going to be dumped because the company cannot afford to devote any time to making them work. Again, less features with $$ attached.

What's going to happen.. who knows, but it is a much different community than it was say 8 years ago.

well i for one get a great deal of pleasure out of this site wether i am joining in the discussions or creating some art and think it is great. true have only been a member since 2006 and to be honest havent really noticed much difference  lol.....should try to pay attention i suppose  

Phoon....I was referring to the apps...[skinnables], not the skins themselves....

I'm with Lou and nice post Island Dog. Don't have your name as you must have been busy when I had that topic on the forum. I have to feel a bit like it's the after Holiday blues and all will be fine. As I said on page 1 that you are all such fine people I am hoping it stays active.

Some people say what they think and even though everyone may not agree with it there is no reason to get upset over it. Just read it the correct way and if it doesn't pertain to you let it go and if it does than most everything can be worked out. Nothing said is ever that bad that's worth losing a community or friendship over. We all have our views and that is just part of life and one day you may be mad at someone and the next they are your friend. This is a wonderful helping group so lets chill out, keep it all together and raise hell once and awhile. Now that's the kind of stuff that makes me have fun reading and laughing.

It's Spencer...and he's a good'un!

Thanks.

*note to self..stop posting in the 25th slot

Thanks Jim.

By the way Po every time I see you with that coffee I have to fix a cup. You could pass it around now and than as you always seem to have it brewing.