Ever Wonder Why the World is in an Economic Mess

take a look at this

Saturday, January 24, 2009 by starkers | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk

The bankers are deservedly copping a hard time for their greed and economic mismanagement, but let's not leave out/forget there are others deserving of our disdain and anger.  This was over at the Consumerist site:

"Here's a sad little saga. After convincing our government that it was responsible enough and commercially viable enough to deserve a multi-billion-dollar bailout, Chrysler spent some of the money taking out full page ads in The Wall Street Journal and USAToday, thanking America for its money. They also posted these ads proudly on their blog. The reaction from actual Americans was, um, harsh."

For more, and the backlash comments see here

Stupidity seems to be in an abundance thoughout the business world these days (and government, so it seems)... but to advertise it in a national publication is beyond stupid.  Talk about going from the sublime to the ridiculous!  Hopefully, Barack Obama will put a stop to these business bailouts - if a company isn't good enough to trade its own way out of trouble it will continue to fail regardless - and start jailing some of these high flyers for corporate fraud/public embezzlement and etc.

I particularly agree with this part from one of the backlash comments: "even if your company fails, you will have your golden parachute stitched with money taken from the pockets of people who are losing their homes, their jobs, and their ability to provide for their family....". As always, the average bloke gets flushed down the toilet while the rich keep get richer off dirty dealing/underhanded tactics.

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starkers
Reply #81 Monday, January 26, 2009 3:00 AM

The headline to this on yahoo 7 here in Oz was "Cheap and Nasty"

Looks to me like Fuld knew he hadn't come by this mansion honestly and signed it over to his wife to protect the ill-gotten asset.  I sincerely hope the administraotors responsible for investigating and dealing with the bank scum are empowered under law to sieze it anyhow... and should it proven to have been acquired via illicit dealings/proceeds, so it should be, despite the 'sale' to his wife.  In fact, charge her with complicity and being an accessory in the commission of a crime.... cos there's no way on earth she didn't know.

mickeko
Reply #82 Monday, January 26, 2009 6:01 AM

I'll just answer the question in the subject; No!

starkers
Reply #83 Monday, January 26, 2009 8:33 AM

I just found the following on a finance page at yahoo7.  While the comment comes from a forum type discussion, it does make for some interesting reading.... more here

"In short, the majority of the money lent out by banks is literally created from nothing."

If you think that's bad, have a look at the derivatives trades around the world by the various banks(investment banks are the worst). Basically there are hundreds of trillions of dollars in bets, ranging from commodities and currencies to interest rates. JP Morgan has asset backing of 4% over it's derivative bets i.e for every $100 bet, they have $4 in assets - so the other $96 is basically fictional(then think about that per $100 trillion - $96 trillion of fictional money). Now these bets are hedged in various ways with the idea being that one cancels the other out with a thin slice in the middle collected by the bank(not so thin when you start talking trillions)."

Nasty stuff, that, financial institutions lending money that exists only on paper.  In other words, they're charging interest on monies they never actually had to lend to begin with. 

If my opinion of bastard bankers was pretty low before, it has just taken one hell of a nosedive.

angus1949
Reply #84 Monday, January 26, 2009 4:50 PM

Did anyone get a good look at CitiCorps new $50M corporate jet, bought with bail out funds.  And what's better yet, it isn't even American made.  Who runs this country?  When you find the truth, let me know.

DrJBHL
Reply #85 Monday, January 26, 2009 4:58 PM

LOL...I was going to post that! Also, CitiCorp deserves a MAJOR drubbing. Tell ya about it later, mate.

BTW, it's the Insurance Co.'s...but I somehow doubt that's news.

angus1949
Reply #86 Monday, January 26, 2009 7:10 PM

They should just take every corporate banker, insurance company CEO or any other related low lives that have squandered bailout monies, dress them in pink tu-tu's and lock them up in San Quentin's general population yard.  We've had to pay out the nose, now they can pay out the ............!  Until this country starts wearing boxers instead of pink panties we'll never fix squat.  Sorry for my plain, rough, working man's vocabulary.

k10w3
Reply #87 Monday, January 26, 2009 7:29 PM

hould just take every corporate banker, insurance company CEO or any other related low lives that have squandered bailout monies, dress them in pink tu-tu's and lock them up in San Quentin's general population yard. We've had to pay out the nose, now they can pay out the ............!


I just told my husband we need to bring back tar and feathering just for this one occasion.

Until this country starts wearing boxers instead of pink panties we'll never fix squat. Sorry for my plain, rough, working man's vocabulary.


 Boxers?!!  I think this country needs to go commando, let some air circulate and sunshine hit some places that have remained dark for too long.  (Pink panties, indeed....Ed, they just aren't as comfortable as they sound!)

starkers
Reply #88 Tuesday, January 27, 2009 2:38 AM

Did anyone get a good look at CitiCorps new $50M corporate jet, bought with bail out funds. And what's better yet, it isn't even American made. Who runs this country? When you find the truth, let me know.

Damned disgraceful at best... but more like downright criminal is what fits this travesty best.  It seems there is no level to which these low-life bastards won't stoop, even when the World is falling into financial decay, and they need to be stopped sooner, not later.  If I were Barack Obama, I'd be demanding every red cent of that bailout money back, because it's obviously going to lurks, perks, excesses and undeserved bonuses, etc... NOT where it was intended.  If some of these banks fall, so be it... people should be withdrawing all their money before they do, and the gov't can/should protect deposited funds for those who can't or don't.

For far too long these corporate figures have been living beyond their means... beyond any reasonable means... to unforgivable excesses more accurately describes it, and this greed must be stopped before it bleeds everyone and everything dry.  I mean, realistically, who needs a $50M personal jet; and a $30M luxury yacht; and a $25M mansion; and a Rolls Royce, Bentley, Aston Martin, Maserati and Ferrari... and $200 +M in cash?  If these corporate high rollers had earned all this honestly, you'd say "good luck to them", but for the most part, they have accumulated these things through dishonesty, deceit, fraud, embezzlement and greed... they are neither earned or deserved.  Frankly, it should all be confiscated and returned to the rightful owners - those companies/owners who were more or less blackmailed ("I/we won't work for you if you don'y pay up) into funding these excesses - or redistributed where they can do the most good.

The power to enable this is in the hands of the people - ie, boycotting goods that support it; withdrawing deposited funds; offloading shares back to the companies, and forcing elected representatives to act against it - but it won't happen if people continue to accept it and sit on their hands.  The time to act is NOW, or it will be too late... a depression will descend upon us.

 

Tailsgirl
Reply #89 Tuesday, January 27, 2009 2:46 AM

Just for you starkers    

starkers
Reply #90 Tuesday, January 27, 2009 3:02 AM

angus1949
They should just take every corporate banker, insurance company CEO or any other related low lives that have squandered bailout monies, dress them in pink tu-tu's and lock them up in San Quentin's general population yard.  We've had to pay out the nose, now they can pay out the ............!  Until this country starts wearing boxers instead of pink panties we'll never fix squat.  Sorry for my plain, rough, working man's vocabulary.

There's no need to apologise for or excuse your "working man's volcabulary"... it speaks volumes and makes public just how ordinary folk feel about these corporate excesses killing off decency and any hope we have of returning to economic mormality. If anything, Ed, you were rather conservative in your choice of words.  I, and I'm sure quite a few others, have much stronger language which would apply, but we have some modicum of decency and will not stoop to their levels of immoral indecency.

I'm in a similar boat to you, Ed, so yeah, man, I hear ya... loud and clear.

I just told my husband we need to bring back tar and feathering just for this one occasion.

What, just the ONCE???   There is far too much corporate greed and corruption for a one-off tar and feathering.  More would be needed... MUCH more!  However, reducing them to less than what they expect us to live on would be more appropriate... and a prison cell without all the mod-cons to which they've become accustomed would fit the bill just nicely.  I'm not an advocate of violence or over-the-top retribution, because then we are not separated from the animals, so an appropriate prison term is sufficient for me.

Boxers?!! I think this country needs to go commando, let some air circulate and sunshine hit some places that have remained dark for too long. (Pink panties, indeed....Ed, they just aren't as comfortable as they sound!)

I think you've hit the nail right on the head here, Karen!  Their tiny corporate brains haven't been getting enough air or sunshine, so yeah, "commando"  would be good, but me thinks they could do to go hobo for a while... you know, where ventilation is excellent cos everything has holes in it.

starkers
Reply #91 Saturday, January 31, 2009 1:59 AM

More US jobs to go.  The 2,110 job loses at Caterpillar are on top of 20,000 permanent job cuts already announced by the company.

And what the banks/bankers did to contribute is NOT criminal??????

Tailsgirl
Reply #92 Saturday, January 31, 2009 2:27 AM

starkers
Reply #93 Saturday, January 31, 2009 3:29 AM

This is why the bankers are responsible for the financial crisis, and have in fact exacerbated it.....

"President Barack Obama on Thursday called it "shameful" that Wall Street workers received more than $US18 billion ($A27.61 billion) in bonuses in 2008 while their firms were receiving taxpayer help."

I'm sure the US taxpaying public did not intend for bailout funds intended to save banks from total collapse to go in bonuses to the tune of US$18 billion.  That's almost USD$20b out of the $450b already spent on bailing out the banks... banks being the operative word here.  The bailout was intended to prop up banks, NOT line the individual pockets of greedy and already wealthy bankers.

See more here..

mickeko
Reply #94 Saturday, January 31, 2009 9:55 AM

starkers
The bailout was intended to prop up banks, NOT line the individual pockets of greedy and already wealthy bankers.

Because we already know that people are not greedy. Specially not in bad times...

 

And that cat looks like the cat that WILL approve your loan... And send someone to break your fingers if you don't pay up before half the time the loan is due.

WOM
Reply #95 Saturday, January 31, 2009 10:02 AM

Lets print up more money to cover this round of bailout/stimulis package.  I see $300 million for rubbers, guess that qualifies as stimulis.  And yes, these idiots that run these companies should cut back and quit wasting money and getting bonuses.  And yes, there should be accountability for the money they get.  But lets cut the pork out of this batch of money we don't haveWe can't keep printing money we don't have as that making our money so cheal that it will hurt us in the long run.

angus1949
Reply #96 Saturday, January 31, 2009 10:13 AM

"President Barack Obama on Thursday called it "shameful" that Wall Street workers received more than $US18 billion ($A27.61 billion) in bonuses in 2008 while their firms were receiving taxpayer help."
Words are weak unless Obama has the nads to actually do something to these leeches for the American public to see.  How many times about how many items have we seen totally disappear the second the media drops the story.  So let's not forget another of the prime drivers behind the mess in this country and in fact the world, THE MEDIA.

(Remember, people should not fear their government, but the government should fear it's people.) Paraphrased from unknown source.

Tailsgirl
Reply #97 Saturday, January 31, 2009 10:27 AM

mickeko

And that cat looks like the cat that WILL approve your loan... And send someone to break your fingers if you don't pay up before half the time the loan is due.
No mick, he sends THIS guy after you.


angus1949
Reply #98 Saturday, January 31, 2009 10:34 AM

k10w3
Reply #99 Saturday, January 31, 2009 11:36 AM

Lets print up more money to cover this round of bailout/stimulis package. 


Do we really print more money...does paper money mean anything?  Isn't it all pretty much just the moving of numbers from one bank's computer to the other bank's computer?  I haven't seen actual paper money in months.  Between direct deposit and debit card, there is no need for me to handle cash -- it's just computer transactions of a running talley of numbers.  I'm pretty sure that's how it is with most people, so why even bother with the printing part?  Printing is just an unnecessary expense when it comes to commerce and business transactions.  Let's cut that out. 

When a cashless society goes broke, what happens then?

starkers
Reply #100 Saturday, January 31, 2009 5:46 PM

When a cashless society goes broke, what happens then?

Part of the problem is that we have become or are becoming a cashless society.... accountibility goes out the window when banks can play with electronic money; can loan when they do not actually have the cash reserves, and can reap interest on monies they never had to lend in the first place.  In other words, the banks profit on non-existent monies... by virtue of the fact they say they loaned them.

So what happens when cashless banks go broke... recession, unemployment and the GDP goes down the toilet.  The banks should never have been allowed to hedge bets/lend on funds they didn't have... not ever, and the sooner governments, banks and corporations realise that economies will always go guts up when based on electronic funds/transfers, stocks/shares and prining money willy-nilly without having the reserves/resources to back it, the better.

I predicted this recession 15 - 20 years ago, and so should the World's economists, because there is no such thing as a fast buck and the only way to make one is to earn it honestly.... something the corporate world has lost touch with because of greed.

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