Sadly it is the Dems, and seemingly Pres Obama, that are the major proponents of the bailouts - especially those in the auto industry which is the home of one of their primary sources of contributions.  Can any one say 'labor unions' boys and girls?

And, unfortunately, although it does seem most visible in the corp world the issue of 'greed' is not limited to just the folk in three piece suits.  Although much of the problems in the banking industry were brought on by questionable lending practices a lot of the blame goes right back to the Joe Lunchbucks who didn't think any farther down the pike than how quickly they thought they could 'flip' the house they bought or, somehow, convinced themselves that they really could afford a $300k home even if the combined family income was around $35k.

As with all things human as the old saying from Pogo goes - 'we has met the enemy, and they is us!'

Well I ain't fighting with you, hallv5. The faulty policies (and dumb NAFTA) started under the Clinton Administration, but I don't believe it was with the intent that anything like this would occur: Rather, I believe it was to try to help the people disadvantaged in the past, much the same as the reasons GinnieMae and FannieMay were started.

Things got way out of hand by the implementation of the "No Collateral/No Income" loans that were made so the paper could be sold to China/Asia where the money was sitting (for good reason: They actually makie things!). These are major Felons. What? The thought ANY commodity (Real Estate) will continue to rise didn't bother ANYONE? Nonsense and Greed.

There was a commentator on CNN last nite telling of a Wall Street friend who was unhappy at making $2,000.000 per year. He complained that at that pace it'd take a decade to make $20 million! Well! Can't have that, can we?

That is the root of this evil. Impossibly greedy, disconnected, dysfunctional, unethical and immoral felons who need rounding up and jail. Along with Joe Lunchbucks, who saw what was going on and wanted his...no matter how.

My posts echo yours regarding eveyone's role in this and didn't bother with the quting stuff...sorry.

Here is an idea to the beauracrats (right spelling?) anyway, how about bailing out the family down the street that is losing their home, fighting to put food on the table, oh i really shouldnt get into this, i get so angry, when the "average Joe and his family get screwed once again" but there is a positive note, i truly believe our new president Barack Obama will do good things, I have a lot of faith in this man, havent had that since JFK, (even though i was a young whippersnapper)

I knew it!!!!  Someone just had to put the blame back on the average joe, didn't they!!!  Before making this comment, did you do any research into how the banks convince lower income earners how they could easily have afforded the $300k mortgage?  Yup, there was the: "We'll keep interest down and extend the life of the loan so your monthly repayment is affordable."  or the: "Look, interest is really low right now and there's no better time to buy as we can tailor a mortgage to suit your needs and ability to pay." 

And on top of that, there were unscrupulous realtors doing anything and everything underhanded to make a sale.  One realtor, in Illinois I believe, was actually telling prospective customers that his agency would pay the deposit and it would be absorbed by charging the vendor more.  However, the truth was that it got tacked on the purchase price but hidden on the overall contract in supposed taxes and state fees... thus hiking up interest payments via the larger principle loan.

Where did I get this information??  The BBC's US News Service... which I believe to be unbaised because it has no US agenda or axe to grind, unlike US based new services with political and corporate affiliations,

Then of course there were the ever increasing interest rates that went through the roof, while household incomes remained the same and/or grew less through enforced unemployment... and how their disposable funds lost value with inflation and rising prices: ie, fuel, food, clothing. etc.  The average joe on a fixed income was not financially equipped to cater for these factors combined, and thus his/her propensity was drastically reduced.

The true enemy is bank and corporate greed... executives taking far more than they're worth.

Nowhere close by, Karen. I believe WE make the Justice system respond. WE just have to do it. No one's gonna do it for us.

Actually here in Massachusetts, when the mortgage disaster started, they busted, an attorney, a realtor, and a mortgage lender,( these 3 in cahoots together)  for doing just that, tell the people they could afford the mortgage, after 6 months it was sold to another lender who doubled their monthly payments, fortunately they were caught, tried and convicted

Yup, we were scammed into thinking that everything with the economy as doing good.  Like all scams and swindles and just down right lies it requires that the rest of us (the marks) believe and accept what we were being told.  It should have never got to the bail out sistuation if the consumer (the marks) paid any attention or were intellignet enough to understand thier own situations. 

Problem with life is everyone always wants the carrot tied to the string that is being dangled in front of us.  Yes, we all have the 'greed virus' within us.  The whole thing would have never worked if it wasn't for US.

How does that saying go as the cartoon character looks into the mirror, "We have meet the enemy and they is US".

Just read the preamble to the Declaration of Independence.

And to compound the lack of TRUE justice, too many dangerous precedents were established by people with money and smart lawyers who found ways to manipulate the system... and the folly of the system is that once a precedent is set, right or wrong, it becomes becomes law... not a law within the statute books per se, but the decision is used time and time again to have handed down the same or similar judgements.

Am I the only one who can see there is something inherrently wrong with this dangerous practice... that one profoundly bad decision leads to another... and another.  And what's with all this 'plea bargaining' crap?  Do the crime and you do the time... no special deals to soften the sentence, nor the work of the court, prosecutors and defense attorneys.  No wonder there is so much corruption... and the corporoate high flyers think they can get away with anything  and everything... because they can, and do.  All they need is money and a smart mouth lawyer to have rules favourably bent and exceptions made.

This is why lawyers have such a bad reputation, particularly corporate and criminal lawyers... though to me they're one in the same... lower than a snake's belly and pond scum.  While TV shows like Law And Order try to portray prosecutors as hard woking honest people, I do not believe it.  They are no more beyond reproach than any other public figure with power and influence, and certainly not incorruptible.  Sadly, the American way of doing things has infiltrated the legal system here in Oz, elsewhere too, and it's all wrong when rapist and child molesters are able to manipulate things and be back on the streets in no time.  One such rapist got 'special consideration after serving just 5 months in remand and was released... a few hours later he raped again and murdered his victim.  So who wants this kind of joke justice?... because I/we here in Oz certainly don't.

And about time... that somebody in power actually had the balls to prosecute.  However, there is more that needs to be done as there's more parasitic vermin out there stealing from the poor to give to the rich..themselves.

It's all fine and dandy to say these things when we haven't personally been duped by the spiel of a professional conman whose business it is to sell lousy deals by dressing them up to appear attractive and reasonable... like dressing up a sows ear and selling it as a silk purse.  It doesn't matter how smart one is, these conmen only have to sniff half a want and they'll exploit every opportunity and weakness to close the deal... they could sell ice to Eskimos, such is their expertise in exploiting human frailties.  I recall the case of a conman realtor in the 80's who managed to sell acres of swampland to people wanting to build/own their own homes.  He caught several professional people as well as lay people because he had official looking documents and convinced them that the local authority had rezoned the area and it was due for reclaimation/landfill, that it could be built upon within 2 years.  Sure he was caught, tried and convicted, but not before he had reaped millions and stashed it in an offshore account, and thus was a multi millionaire upon his release just 6 yerars later.

So, tell me, what is greedy about the average joe wanting to put a roof over his/her family's head?  And how does it in any way compare with the greed of the realtor, banker and corporate high flyer who lied, cheated and stole from the poor to get where they are today?  It's easy enough to throw a blanket over every working joe who took out a mortgage and blame them for causing the financial collapse, but never to admit/agree that they were conned and sucked into it by experts who'd steal their own mother's purses, take out all the cash and manage to sell them back their own property.  It's this kind of lame reasoning that's a big part of the problem... the conmen realise they have sympathisers/admirers among us and it empowers them with a sense of hero worship and a momentum upon which to build.

It makes me sick to my stomach! Here we have people with the least to lose being taken for everything they've got, including sometimes their lives, and here we are looking for ways to blame them for causing the recession after being ripped off by the expert conmen who actually caused it.

Socialism, a trillion dollar spending spree, massive govt. and a welfare state certainly isn't going to help.

And what's with all this 'plea bargaining' crap? Do the crime and you do the time... no special deals to soften the sentence, nor the work of the court, prosecutors and defense attorneys. No wonder there is so much corruption... and the corporoate high flyers think they can get away with anything and everything... because they can, and do. All they need is money and a smart mouth lawyer to have rules favourably bent and exceptions made.

It's simple. Weak cases, lazy prosecutors, overworked system, bribes.... and NO OVERSIGHT. If they knew someone was waiting outside, they might prefer jail time.

 It's all fine and dandy to say these things when we haven't personally been duped by the spiel of a professional conman whose business it is to sell lousy deals by dressing them up to appear attractive and reasonable... like dressing up a sows ear and selling it as a silk purse. It doesn't matter how smart one is, these conmen only have to sniff half a want and they'll exploit every opportunity and weakness to close the deal... they could sell ice to Eskimos, such is their expertise in exploiting human frailties. 

This is the truth. The smarter the person is, or the more desparate for some status, the more vulnerable. People should learn about the Psychology of Gullibility (NPR.org..."Health of the Nation" about two weeks ago).

So, tell me, what is greedy about the average joe wanting to put a roof over his/her family's head? And how does it in any way compare with the greed of the realtor, banker and corporate high flyer who lied, cheated and stole from the poor to get where they are today? It's easy enough to throw a blanket over every working joe who took out a mortgage and blame them for causing the financial collapse, but never to admit/agree that they were conned and sucked into it by experts who'd steal their own mother's purses, take out all the cash and manage to sell them back their own property.

Well, if one is talking a simple home, then no, I couldn't find it in my heart to condemn. If it's a fellow who earns say $30 K per year with 2 kids, and wants a $500 K home....well, how could he have thought he could afford that? I'm not condemning him, but whoa...how the heck did he think he could swing that? Anyway...your point is understood and is understandable and acceptable with a proviso of 'reasonability'. I can't call him geedy...foolish, yes...but not greedy.

It makes me sick to my stomach! Here we have people with the least to lose being taken for everything they've got, including sometimes their lives, and here we are looking for ways to blame them for causing the recession after being ripped of by the expert conmen who actually caused it.

I, like you, feel that the full weight of punitive action should fall on the perpetrator with clear mens rhea (evil intent). I also don't think the other should be rewarded for his gullibility but rather reimbursed and warned that "Christmas comes only once a year" and that "if it sounds to good to be true, it probably is." After that, he has no claims.

Really, and the capitalist state is working better how?  Seems to me it is riding the failboat big time as an economic model and the US could do to learn from some of the successful socialist economic packages instead of referring to the old-school book on capitalist indoctrination and listening to Republican fear mongers who have been taking corporate kickbacks for so long they have forgotten their oath of office and duty of care as politicians... to serve the people.

Socialism, big govt has never worked, capitalism has.. just breaks down when human greed is introduced, nothing wrong with the system, just the people running it.

Starkers.. you don't watch O' Reilly i bet do ya?

Doc.. that blue font doesnt become u... bit.. 'in yer face'

V- Please tell me what your idea (or the solution you most favor if not your own) is? Top down, or bottom up?

Starkers, all your points are well thought out and true. 

My point though is that each of us knows what is within our means (our income)  and our ability to pay.  The folks caught up in all this could have provided for thier family (roof over the heads, food, clothing and such) and not have fallen prey to the conmen. 

Folks were being told for instance that they could qualify for a higher mortgage then was realistic, the carrot.  Hey get this style of loan that has an adjustable rate, very low to begin with.  You can handle it, then when the rate goes up, well you will be earning more in income because the economy is doing so good.

I don't consider myself any smarter then the next person, but maybe I do think things through longer before making a decision.

As far as being duped, we all have at some point in our life.  Most of us though do learn from those mistakes.  Happens everytime we go anywhere to buy a product or service.  We usually come home with nothing like what we went to get.  Buying  an automobile for instances. 

Bottom line, yes the folks that are guility of duping the public need to be punished.  The folks that brought into it need to hopefully become a wiser and more intelligent consumer.

Philly: You should nlisten to this program from NPR: "The Science of Gullibility". You might be surprised at the findings of why we fall for what we do.

Greed will never go away.. ever.. its keeping a better eye on the greedy ones.... that will make all the diff.

Y'all are really overthinking something very simple...imo.

Kill capitalism.. kill ambition.

If you want to live in a world where everyone is equal and all ambition has been defeated via govt. intervention..then by all means.. keep voting that way.

I like the free market (American) dream

Btw.. I am below poverty level in income... not some fat cat fighting it to hold on to what I have,

If you think greed is going to vanish under socialism.. think again.. it will just go underground.

That's not necessarily true.  Certainly some people will always need to be proded, but there are others who are ambitious simply because it's their nature to be doing something.  I don't get paid for skinning, but I spend a considerable amount of time on it.  That's not sloth.  When I worked for the local hospital, I volunteered to develop the power point presentation for the rest of my coworkers on how to use their expander more efficiently--in fact, I did so much volunteering on upgrading what we had and improving the efficiency of the department that the supervision started having nightmares of me taking her job.  I didn't do it to make money, or to rise in the organization.  I did it because we were part of a team, and making the team better meant better patient care.

Killing capitalism will only kill the ambition of the people who don't necessarily enjoy what they're doing in the first place, and maybe those people should take a little time off and discover what it is they WOULD like to do, since they're going to be doing it a third of their lifetime.  The problem is we have people doing jobs simply for the money (ambition will lead a person down some ugly streets sometimes), rather than going about their life's work.