But that is entirely the point. We're all in this because we are *customizers.* So you offer us a custom skin, because that's what we do, customize our computers, and then we're told we *can't* customize it, even though that is the whole purpose? It's just over the top.

BTW, I changed the taskbar button font colors and fonts on a subscriber skin, ohnoes!

If they're too inept to not actually *research* it first, then screw 'em anyway. Although....I gotta say, offering actual in-use screenshots (instead of just mockups, more in depth) would go a long way for showing off the skins on the product pages (yes I see there are some bits, but it's a lot of closeup mockups). That way people wouldn't have to go digging around the net to find the skins in action.

Jeff

Hay man WHY are you trying to get everybody's back up.....

So un cool....

It was the same yestaday  you could of sorted it out with a copple of PM's....

but no you had to do damage.... and that's sad.

i was thinking to my self, why you with so much talent got band from here..? Now i know why....

Bebi: Funny how you're so willing to say "screw them" about something you have nothing to do with any of this. Billy and I on the other hand have time and money invested in Hyperdesk and will protect it.

As far as changing subscriber skins, that's up to Stardock. They don't mind it? Great. We mind. Like we've said in the past what you do in your own home is fine but don't display our work altered in public. We own the copyrights.

Robbie: You have no idea I was banned. Why am i getting on everyone's back? Gee i don't know. Could be because one person ripped our theme off and another violated our EULA. Maybe that's why?

So what do you think your doing to Microsoft's product then...?????

And who's Billy?

And stay in your highchair we are just putting our point across here....

I did not say i did...

Read it again....

Robby: Microsoft is well aware of the patch. Has been for over 7 years now. I also have email from them saying they don't see an issue with it. This went through their OEM division and Legal department. Still want to act like you have a clue?

Bottom line is if you don't like our policies then don't buy our products. It's that simple. I would never disrespect an artist the way some of the people here do.  The unwritten rule is you ask permission first if you're going to alter someone's art before you show it in public. Some of you need to read up on copyrights.

Don't you think life is to short to get upset about things like this,

You have a great job doing something you love......... and doing so well out of it.

And no harm done i'm just chating..

So your saying you have never broken a copyright....?

if not your the only one in the world....

Have a good night mate it's 2 am here and i'm going to bed....

OK, I'm going to say it, even though Jeff thinks it's none of my (or Bebi's) business.  It's a thread, a discussion, and for the sake of discussion (and argument), we all have an opinion, which adds to the discussion--it's why we come here, it's the point to the WinCustomize forum -- it's how we contribute to the skinning community here at WinCustomize.

First off, Elsius Saint, the originator of the thread, the poster of the screen shot, and the alleged violator of TSF's EULA, never admitted to the fact that the skin in his screenshot was Hyperdesk -- these were the responses of other posters, so since he did not admit to it being Hyperdesk, he's not damaging TSF's reputation -- we don't even know if he purchased the theme...it could have been a gift and then he wouldn't know the EULA terms.

I guess it depends where you're sitting. Where you and Bebi are sitting are in your homes and have zero invested in this theme.

Me on the other hand works every night until 3 am on Hyperdesk. We spent over 2 months creating this theme and some person comes along and alters our work without our permission and displays it? Do you have any idea how disrespectful that is? What gives him the right to take and alter our work and show it in public?

The rule is you DO NOT ALTER another artist's work and display it in public without permission.

For all you out there, here are the Wincustomize rules: https://www.wincustomize.com/about.aspx/

The Rules

This site is a community site. As such, we expect users to behave with honor and integrity. Treat the person you post to or comment on a skin to as if they are sitting next to you. Picture this place as a nice, comfortable resort surrounded by friends.

More specifically, our rules have to be about the handling of intellectual property. This site carries intellectual property in the form of skins, themes, icons, and wallpapers. Intellectual property, be it software, music, books, or skins/themes is like any other type of property. When you upload something, you are agreeing to the guidelines set below:

1. Ownership: You own the materials you upload. This cuts both ways, we assume you made what you uploaded and we will not sell your property without your permission. You must not only own what you submit but the subcomponents of it unless you have permission from the owners of the property you are submitting. For instance, DesktopX objects are designed to be used in other people's themes. It is assumed that when you upload a DesktopX object that you are giving permission to others to use them in their themes and they can therefore upload a theme that includes your DesktopX object without permission.
   
   If you upload something that is owned by someone else or contains materials owned by someone else, we have the right to delete that item without notification. For instance, if you upload a wallpaper with the Lord of the Rings logo and the owners of that logo come to us and request we remove it, we will do so. Or if you upload a WindowBlinds skin, of some operating system, and the OS vendor requests we remove it, we will do so.
    
   

The fact that I have to sit here and have a discussion with some of you about how this is wrong is ridiculous.

and k10w3: He doesn't have to admit to what it is. He doesn't own the copyright, I do. That theme can only legally be had if it was purchased. Doesn't matter if it was a gift from his mother or Santa Claus, the EULA before installation states he can not alter it.

I would think that you've done business long enough to know that not all of your customers are respectful. If you are all that concerned about your art, then don't sell it -- lock it up, hide it, make it a rare thing.  I assumed you cared about making money, and that's why you've made your art available to the public for cash.  As I said in my other post, if you're really concerned about your (disrespectful) customers jacking with your products, then encrypt them.  


I think he believes since he's purchased  the product, he believes he has the right to alter your work as long as he doesn't SAY it's your work, or pawn it off as your original product.  I could purchase a designer dress, rip off the sleeves and sew something else on them, take a snap shot of it, and post it on the web, as long as I didn't SAY that the dress was an original from the original designer, there is no way a lawyer would come after me.  This is no different.

Now this is an interesting development. The name on the start menu is Anson. We have no record of any Anson buying this theme. Well Anson or Elesius Saint or whatever you want to call yourself I would love to know your order number for the Hyperdesk Flagship theme. Because the only way you can have this theme legally is if you paid for it. And if you paid for it we'll have a record of the sale. So far there is no Anson on record having bought Flagship.

You people still want to stick up for him?

K10W3: Wrong. I do have to be here because our copyrights are being infringed. And if he purchased it well i'd like to see that order number. I don't have to encrypt my themes to protect them. That's what a court of law is for.

This refers to uploads. A screenshot is not an upload. In fact, the site has a screenshot library where people can upload screenshots of their desktop, modified or otherwise. The only rule there is items are sufficiently obscured (eg wallpapers) to prevent being downloaded.

The same rules which apply to the screenshot library apply to the forum. That is what people look at when they post items such as this. Any other issues of display are beyond the scope of the individual concerned.

Again the actual specifics of copyright and display of such should be discussed in private with a Stardock admin - I would suggest you contact Island Dog. Making public posts about issues is not appropriate.

Same applies to rip reports. The skin which caused a problem could have been removed without any fuss or public dredging.

Dr. Eloquence is starting the class: 

To Jeff:

        I see your point of protecting your team of skinners work, they dont deserve to see all their work end up into this kind of "modding", what it bugs me is why are you reviving an old forum thread that in infact at that time the skinner got some minor bad critics? Is like promoting something you dont want to get promoted in first place... (wait.., that didn't have any sense).

Bebi Bulma has here rights to make any critic, i mean, it's a free country., isn't it? And, is not like you will loss any new customers if she start making some heavy critics to your copy rights..., or is it that your market is too weak that it cant handle it? IT IS NOT! i'm sure of that....

To Bebi:

       We ALL know that you enjoy making Jeff get crazy by.., well, by any comment you do to him , but isn't time to find another person to pick on? There are many in here, like Fuzzy Logic (that i would like to see that huge explanation of his name again ), or Jafo or even Noodle., do you remember Noodle?

       You are right about the archaic way TSF license their skins but, why the attack? Leaving a comment without attacks will make you look good, if reacts saying that "it is not of your bussiness" then it is Jeff who will look bad.

To Robbie_Boy:

      What an amazing and un etic way to say "boo, you suck go back to hell, no one needs you here"  Jeff was defending (in a wrong way) his team work..., yes you are right, what Jeff did may be look bad, but for who? I mean, i dont care what methods he use to protect his team work., is not of my bussiness at the end., or should it be?

Like always, all of you just look like you want to atract some attention from others., by acting strict for what you believe, or by defend your right even if no one has rip them off.., even acting relax and cool...

Now that is sad.....

Fuzzy: This is a discussion that needs to be public since too many people have no idea about copyrights. It doesn't matter if the rules says you can show screenshots if a screenshot violates copyrights. I consider it an appropriate topic to discuss. Maybe a few people will learn something about copyrights and respect. And until you have a badge under your name you're in no position to tell me what is and what isn't appropriate. This is a discussion forum where people discuss.

Tycus: whatever.

I saw this for the first time today. That's why its being "dredged up".

Fuzzy is a respected member of the community who's advice and wisdom is valued by most if not all of us here at WC. I'm going to have to agree with him on this point as well.

You were quite satisfied with the response you got from Admin. on your previous complaint and said so publicly,perhaps this should have been handled in a similar fashion. 

The screenshot stays.

Prosecute the poster if you want.  But do it in the courts, not here.

Use the frikkin screenshot section for screenshots . Problem solved. Posting it in the forums takes it beyond this sites watchful eye.

TSF has every right to protect their work in this situation.

The OP does gives the impression that the theme was made by him. He is no ways clear about anything. There is history here that some may not be aware of. While I think TSF is a sellout, I support them 100% here...and btw, almopst everyone is a sellout. Some just have NO honor at all.

Honestly, admin needs to grow a pair and put an end to this stuff.

Rules and Models destroy genius and art.

If people by nature just played by the rules we would not have to create them. Some amazing things are stifled because of rules.