thx for the shout out Excalpius & Doc...yeah..thank gawd for the internet having the reach to counter the Machevelian maneuverings of the well documented Republican election school of nasty;Rove, Atwater's disciple, mentor to McCain current svengali, Steve Smidt & Nicole Wallace - thus maybe the schitzoid seizures & fits of the McCain campaign can be explained that way, or to quote my Portugese grandfather 'if ya can't dazzle them with brilliance, bafffle them with bullshit'....

Seanskycanadian:

The Republican propensity for living in an "alternate reality" (dream world) should never be underestimated.

Fact check your cherry picking of events of bios along with your biased interpretation? Please.

I don't think anyone in this thread has suggested that Obama is a Muslim or a terrorist.

I think there is evidence that at one time, Obama was raised as a Muslim when in Indonesia but I don't think it really matters any way.

Obama certainly has spent time with and associated with people who intensely dislike the United States. Ayres, for instance, is an unrepentant terrorist in my opinion.  My issue with Obama in that area is how many people who just despise this country happen to support him or be involved with him.

This is where you let your personal views interefere with facts.

So who decides whether a given fact is relevant or not? You?  Ignorance is not knowing something.  You expand the definition to include those who have opinions you don't agree with.

I think just the opposite is true so it's all good.

It makes you wonder how Obama would do without the liberals group-think mentality.  I really love how people disregard 0bama's association with Ayers, and all these other anti-American "friends" of his, just by saying we all have "crazy uncles".  That is the most ridiculous thing I have read.

Why would 0bama start his political career with a known radical and domestic terrorist?  Why?

Alternatively speaking, that is.

LOL....I.D.: Obama was 8 years old when that crap happened....It was such a non starter that Republicans said, "Is that the best you've got?".

In fact, it wasn't the best. McCain hasn't got "a best". He just has a pretty little winking attack parrott from mooseland who doesn't know Government from family, and is so clueless she isn't even allowed to be interviewed by herself, nor does she even know how to answer the question, "What magazines do you read?".

Polar bears have more brains (and ethics).

What a hopeless, pathetic ticket.

It's pretty obvious you know nothing about Ayers, otherwise you wouldn't be copying Obama talking points. 

I agree, the 0Bama-Biden ticket is pathetic.

Excalpius -

You know next to nothing about me.  Typical of folks like you to make it personal rather than about facts or issues.  Very lame.

a refresher for ya Daiwa...

Figures you wouldn't get the pun, Seansky.  And you're the cleverboots?  I'm to bow at your altar of wisdom, I guess.  But I think I'll pass, thank you.

The "association" smear is precisely that.  It is fallacious and self-delusional to claim otherwise.

And I was raised Canadian until the age of 4 when I moved to America and became an American citizen by choice.  Do you think for a MINUTE I remember anything about being "Canadian"?  Do you think it has any affect on my politics or religious beliefs, etc. today   At 4 years old?!  Puh-lease.

And I've worked directly with three recent Presidents.  That doesn't mean I'm senile or helped bring down the Berlin Wall, a spy who's responsible for Noriega AND Saddam, or would cheat on my wife, now does it?! 

No, I expand the definition of ignorance to those who bury their heads in the sand so as to remain willfully ignorant of the facts just to keep from shaking up their personal ideology.  There is uneducated and then there is ignorant and then there is willfully ignorant. 

Ah, NOW we get to the meat of it.  Are you one of those "America, love it or leave it" people who the corrupt count on when they sling that "your flag pin isn't as big as my flag pin" hooey?

In an effort to clear up the misrepresentation of those of us who love America enough to want to see her get back on track after being whored out to the highest bidder for the past 8 years, here is a list of what I don't think we believe in:

We don't believe we should put American soldiers' lives at risk by premptively invading already declawed countries just to slide a trillion dollars of graft to our cronies.

We don't believe that the Constitution is an anachronistic document that should be actively isubverted.

We don't believe that our systems and balances are quaint and should be ignored by an unchecked executive branch.

We don't believe in ceding the moral high ground our predecessors fought 200 years to establish.

We don't believe that you are guilty until proven innocent. re: the (un)Patriot Act.

We don't believe that our private lives are any of your goddamn business.  re: recording US citizen phone calls.

We don't believe that this country has the "god given right" to treat the rest of humanity (and the planet for that matter) like shit, just because we were in the right place at the right time for the industrial age.

And we can't believe we are the only remaining industrialized nation in the world that still lets these HMO scumbags (thanks Nixon! ahem) kill our own citizens in the interest of more pennies to the stockholders.

We don't believe in torture.

We don't despise this country.  We despise the LEADERSHIP of OUR country - what Bush's administration has done to OUR nation and we're holding anyone associated with it, including McCain, accountable.

I love this country.  I, like you, Brad, and like Obama, have had more than my fair share of the American Dream.   And I see that dream dying all over this nation.  It is simply not possible for some people to get out of the holes they've been squeezed into by the policies of this administration.   And I know that no amount of individual charity can counter the machines that are deliberately bleeding the poor and middle class of this country dry.

So, I think this GREAT nation can do better.  And I love America enough to do whatever it takes to see her stay a superpower and remain the most blessed nation on the Earth.

And we aren't going to be able to make that happen with more decades of "me first" and "I need to save another 1% on my taxes" thinking.

"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." --  Thomas Jefferson

In fact, nowhere do the founding fathers say anything even remotely like "America, love it or leave it."

Because when he met him it was DECADES later and they were both on an Annenberg CHARITABLE foundation together, along with other Chicago Republicans and Democrats alike.

Because we don't hold McCain accountable for decades of personal affiliations with Saddam Hussein (when he was our paid for ally against Iran), Osama bin Laden (when he was our paid for ally againt Russia), and Noriega (when he was running drugs for Bush Sr.'s CIA through Panama).

In other words, we understand the definition and nature of politics enough to know this is an utter non-issue.

re Reply #334...that is a tour de force of a response Excalpius;clearly, you truly are a learned & great man who has walked amoungst the greatest minds & achievers of your nation - my gawd...that 'from the heart' listicle would have been worthy in tonight's "Joe the Plumber" debate...and you are correct in stating that what your American electorate is hungering for & needful of, is what you so passionately articulated...not what the 'base' was high fiving Senator McCain for.... 

You, like Obama, are good at vague generalizations and demagoguery.  Some sweeping rhetoric, without actually making the case for it.  Simply a claim of belief.

Does no one realize that this election has basically de-evolved into a scene from Napoleon Dynamite?

"Vote for me, and all of your wildest dreams will come true."

Pedro '08

I guess we can take it from your comment that this is your FIRST election then?