I'm not your bro and I am going to taze you!

Frogblog: January 2008

Thursday, January 17, 2008 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize News

image The cliche "beauty in the eye of the beholder" is so overused but is so universal. A better phrase would be that value is in the eye of the beholder.

This past week, Apple updated the iPhone and the iPod Touch. Apple is charging existing users $19.95 to get some of the new features. Thus ensued a lot of bitching and moaning about the price. 

Maybe it's because I'm a sick, scummy, evil capitalist who eats babies when I'm not on here flaming web hippies but what is it with non-producers constantly asserting that other people are greedy for not working for them for free.  When I bought my iPod Touch (best purchase of 2007) I knew it didn't have email or map features. The Apple is letting me have these cool and extremely useful features for 20 bucks is great.   (here's my quick review of it)

So what if new users don't have to pay the $20. They had to wait longer. If the iPod Touch were a video game, it would be priced at half the price it launched at by now. You don't hear people screaming that they had to pay $50 for their favorite game a year ago and now it's available for $30 at Best Buy do you? 

That's one of my biggest peeves with the Internet. We now have an entire generation of web hippies that not only expect other people to work for them to be free but have the audacity to accuse those producing stuff of greed if they refuse to behave like proper slaves. 

In an age where there are fewer and fewer people making stuff (skins, software, you name it) it strikes me as extremely ironic that anyone who doesn't make stuff thinks they're in any position to be demanding others work for free for them. 

I can't make an email applet for my iPod. I'm glad Apple did. And I will happily trade $20 that I earned through my labor to those who produced it.  When I can't produce something for myself, I don't mind paying those who can produce a thing I want if it's of value to me. If it's not worth it, I don't purchase it.


Aero Executive

I see the same thing with skins too. Someone makes a cool skin and you inevitably have some people come out and crap on it. Last week on our tech partner site, Neowin, a user posted about Aero Executive (a new theme).  Within minutes, users came on and started crapping on it. Now, a wood-textured version of Aero may not be for you but it's a good skin from a design perspective.  But in the age of entitlement, the people who don't actually produce anything not only expect an unlimited right to insult those who do make stuff but become incredulous if called out for their criticism (i.e. they recognize their right to free speech but become amazingly intolerant of the right of others to defend themselves). It got so bad I had to close the thread.

So here's the deal: If you produce stuff then good for you.  If you don't produce stuff, then you are either reliant on the good will of others to produce things for you or you will have to pay evil capitalists to labor on your behalf to produce the product, good, or service you want.  And while you are free to criticize what others produce, so too are other people free to criticize you in return since, after all, criticism is a form of product too.

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Leo the Lion
Reply #21 Friday, January 18, 2008 2:42 AM
I thought the folks at Neowin were really mellowing on their feelings towards Windowblinds and Stardock over the past year up until this 'Aero Executive' nonesense. I can remember the times, years ago, when they would come in their droves to crap on anything and it became the norm for Frogboy, Pas, myself and others to try defend anything that went up on that site. In the past year I sensed that many of them had finally realized that Object Desktop/Windowblinds was not a 'resource hog' and that it actually was a damn good suite of programs with some excellent skins. What caused this 'mellowing'? There are several factors and one of the main ones is the healthy respect that many of them have built up for vStyler's work. Yes, John you may be surprised by that comment but a lot of folks migrated from Visual Styles to Windowblinds because of Vienna, Sexy and Harmony. Simple styles which you put together with a lot of professional care which had MASS APPEAL. I know of at least ten people, acquaintances and friends, who were staunch VS merchants who would not have touched any Stardock product with a barge pole a couple of years ago and - believe you me they just loved to throw it in my face - but these same people now have Windowblinds and have ditched VS styles. If I took Vienna and Sexy off some of them they would cry like babies, I tell you. If you add in the fact that they can put in an iconpackage, calendar, clock and weather gadget to match, they love it and you would not get them back to VS Styles, even if you paid them. I also sensed this 'mellowing; when I watched Mike's Slider XP Work in progess thread go up over there. On the whole, the Neowiners, were fairly restrained and even those who did not like it were quite complimentary towards Mike and his skills. Mike, to his credit, handled himself with utmost dignity and won himself a few fans. I started posting screenshots on their Monthly Desktop pages and did nice pieces on both the Magic and Winter Wonderland suites and I think I only received one negative comment. A few years ago they would have been all over me like a rash..........

Someone might think this is 'food for thought' but as I was reminded ealier in the week, it's really none of my business as I don't really count as I don't make skins..........

I enjoy Neowin but you don't have to be a brain surgeon to see that that they have more than their fair share of.........let's be polite and not sink to their level.....'young' followers........Just look at some of the XP/Vista/Mac threads to watch 'civil war' in action..........

It's a shame that they have reverted to some of the 'old ways' and hopefully it's just a blip caused by a few undesireables.

I said my piece about this skin in it's thread earlier in the week and I got well and truly 'slapped' by Frogboy and others for it. A certain amount of that was justified and if I had of had my 'diplomatic and sensible head on' I would have confined my comments to something like Carl's comment..........Just a little disappointed in the direction that Stardock might be going after such a great past few months with Magic, Winter Wonderland and Sirus.......Still that's 'water under the bridge' and I will continue to extol the virtues Object Desktop to everyone in my travels - many and I mean many have bought it on my recommendation - and look forward to some of the exciting developments planned for 2008


aufisch
Reply #22 Friday, January 18, 2008 3:43 AM
What can I say..... It's a clear case of "smells like teen spirit"-behavior.

Whenever you have a bunch of people who have never really accomplished anything in their lifes, and who are clearly jealous of the people who did accomplish a lot, you will get a "bashing"-party. People who are not capable of creating/doing, feel obviously the need for destroying. That's the way it has been since humankind first climbed off the trees.

.... such a shame humanity doesn't seem to evolve..... (

Alternate Setting
Reply #23 Friday, January 18, 2008 4:05 AM
The cliche "beauty in the eye of the beholder" is so overused but is so universal. A better phrase would be that value is in the eye of the beholder.


I think these are 2 separate discussions. The first "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" relates in my mind more properly in this setting, to those who critique the artists work, both constructively and sadly destructively based on it's appeal to them.

I'd hope as a community we can respond by continuing to develop the skills needed to support artists who offer submissions with constructive feedback. If we can learn to do it well enough, we may cease to lose or otherwise deter contributors.

"Value" as I understand it, relates not solely to how much beauty I perceive in something, but how much of my treasure (be it time, money, energy, etc.) I am willing to risk or spend in order to say that I possess some facet of that beauty.

Unfortunately, I think where a company is identified as having a monopoly on a product, it's apparent 'evilness' is enhanced. For example, it lack's options such as the ability to point to a competitors price/service and present itself as being a positive choice. As a result, to the customer, it's pricing structure becomes less obviously driven by the market and so perhaps more open to subjective criticism, however unfair and/or irrational it may be.

Personally, I think that as Stardock makes various customization products that are accessible to people on many levels, there should be a value point that works for most folks. There is a scale in which people can choose to spend energy where money is an issue, money where time is an issue etc.... it seems on balance to be a system of deployment that works well and could be reasonably described as fair from a consumers point of view.



WebGizmos
Reply #24 Friday, January 18, 2008 5:34 AM
Maybe it's because I'm a sick, scummy, evil capitalist who eats babies

I knew it! I knew it!.....I just knew there was something funny about you !

when I'm not on here flaming web hippies

Ok bud...I resemble that remark....well partially anyway. Change the H in hippies to a D and we're cool though. Its giving us good hippies a bad rep. Ok now...where's my free skins! I want'em now damn it!


WebGizmos
Reply #25 Friday, January 18, 2008 6:31 AM
So here's the deal: If you produce stuff then good for you. If you don't produce stuff, then you are either reliant on the good will of others to produce things for you or you will have to pay evil capitalists to labor on your behalf to produce the product, good, or service you want. And while you are free to criticize what others produce, so too are other people free to criticize you in return since, after all, criticism is a form of product too.


I think it just pisses some people off that "they" either don't have the talent or ambition to produce stuff to the point that they just piss and moan when its something they "have to pay for" if they want it. Or...they're just brain dead.

When I first came to this site, one of the things "I bought" right off was ObjectDock, and when I started using it the first thing I thought to myself was "Hey...I don't see that many skin for this app." So rather than trashing the developer or the site for the limited skins available...I...without any prior training...started churning out docks like there was no tomorrow...sets of docks for 294 skins to date and counting. And I did it because I like a challenge...I like the end result when I can meet the challenge...I like to share with others...and its just plain fun. And along my little journey I've had a few disgruntle "users" with comments like "What were you thinking when you did this crap!?..and the stuff I do for the site and everyone else is free! But I just let it go like water off a ducks back. Your always going to have these kind of people. The thing is....there is a very low percentage of people who get it...life that is...and the rest are just as dumb as a bag of hammers.

Vstylers Aero Executive skin...whether you like it or not...whether its your cup of tea or not...is an excellent skin...plain and simple. Who gives a damn if its an Aero type of skin...who made the rules that there can only be one type of Aero skin? I wanna meet these people so I can smack them upside the head! Aero Executive is a nice piece of eye candy! And even though I'm partial to clear skins like Ecliz for example...I would have even bought this skin even if it had a price on it!

Ya know Brad...the one thing you can't recycle in this world is wasted time. Don't waste another second or thought even considering people who produce nothing but negativity.

DrJBHL
Reply #26 Friday, January 18, 2008 6:52 AM
"other people are greedy for not working for them for free."

You are SOOOOOOOOO right. Great commentary!!!!!
The same goes for Doctors! Why is it always "The rich Doctor in his Mercedes is bleeding me dry!" (lol...pun intended)? Well, when you all were out doing whatever, we sat in hot classromms and worked hard (all the way) for that title. So, since you need us, you pay.

Entitlement is a destructive proposition when not earned. This is not a socialist society. Hope it never becomes one.

And that's my two cents.

NightTrainthedark
Reply #27 Friday, January 18, 2008 6:53 AM
such a shame humanity doesn't seem to evolve


De-evolving once seamed a rdiculous concept to me but as I get wiser it doesn't seem all so ridiculous anymore.

Cerebus1970
Reply #28 Friday, January 18, 2008 7:05 AM
"again, your base your skills on 50,000 retards who lurk on the wincustomize site..lol"
bubbabytes comment on neowin.

This annoyed me,sorry

I think this skin is excellent,there have been very few woodgrain skins that look this good.

Also the higher you go Vstyler,more people will try to pull you down.In Australia its called tall poppy syndrome

WebGizmos
Reply #29 Friday, January 18, 2008 7:05 AM
The same goes for Doctors! Why is it always "The rich Doctor in his Mercedes is bleeding me dry!" (lol...pun intended)? Well, when you all were out doing whatever, we sat in hot classromms and worked hard (all the way) for that title. So, since you need us, you pay.


Sorry...but I think this is quite different in leaps and bounds. And if you don't think so...hang out with me while I go through my little journey of how I need a doctor. They need to change they're little credo from "First do no harm" to "First get paid"...and thats all I'll say about it.

NightTrainthedark
Reply #30 Friday, January 18, 2008 7:11 AM
Also the higher you go Vstyler,more people will try to pull you down.


Too many people take the "what goes up must come down" theory a little too literal.

Fairyy~
Reply #31 Friday, January 18, 2008 7:11 AM
Guess I missed the whole sordid tale ( and thread ) But, its not like I haven't seen it all before. The " I'm entitled to rip apart your work cause I paid my $20 dollars for a subscription routine " Kinda falls under the catagory of " I'll just downrate your work to 1 star just cos I can "

All of it has pretty much lost all effect on me.

Its easier to just not bother skinning at all.

I only downloaded Aero Executive yesterday. I thought it was pretty good. But even if I didn't like it, I'd just delete it and move on. I've bought premium skins that I deleted in 5 minutes. They just weren't ' my cup of Tea ' But it didn't mean they sucked...

There will always be those that just hate paying for anything...Im not about to whinge away over $4.00 for a skin I just didn't happen to like.

The same people will waste $20 eating at a fast food restaurant for food that is usually sub-standard at best, but God forbid they pay for technology or something on the Net.

Spoiled brats.



Jafo
Reply #32 Friday, January 18, 2008 7:33 AM

In Australia its called tall poppy syndrome

That it is....


DataCentre
Reply #33 Friday, January 18, 2008 7:41 AM
I just paid $20 for this software from Apple, and nothing happened. Nothing was downloaded at all. So I still have the same boring iPod. I'm so pissed at Apple. I hope they refund my credit card!

WebGizmos
Reply #34 Friday, January 18, 2008 7:44 AM
... such a shame humanity doesn't seem to evolve.....


Evolving doesn't always mean a good thing! You can evolve in any direction. Unfortunately for mankind, we seem to be going in the wrong direction.

GH33DA
Reply #35 Friday, January 18, 2008 7:53 AM
I got suckered in by the title.

No tazing has occured here. I'm moving on.

DonDodds
Reply #36 Friday, January 18, 2008 8:07 AM
I'm a writer by trade, and worked for several years in the pen-and-paper game industry (D&D-style roleplaying, though I'm sure you all knew that). You would not believe how many people expect free stuff from gaming companies. Hardly a product can be announced without someone, somehow, making a case for a good portion of it to be released for free. These folks try to be clever. "It'll help new players," is the most common argument. They're lying, of course. These kinds of people are really just interested in one aspect of the game or supplement, and don't see why they should be "forced" to pay for the whole thing.

Bushman
Reply #37 Friday, January 18, 2008 8:08 AM
I don't for the most part let peoples negitive comments affect me. I've learned that people will say (more so on the internet) what they want ,good or bad, I look at the dl's. I have one comment on DA that states that he would bew ashamed to post this kind of skin, all I had to say was that I was sorry he felt that way, which ended all conversation. There's an olfd sayin "you can only please some of the people some of the time, but not all of the peole all of the time"   

Island Dog
Reply #38 Friday, January 18, 2008 8:31 AM
The negative comments is why I quit making skins.


I for one say you should start again.  Comments by a select few should never stop anything from doing something they enjoy.





angus1949
Reply #39 Friday, January 18, 2008 8:32 AM
Applause, applause for your stand FrogBoy. I'm going to paraphrase from Leo the Lions post #21..."I enjoy Neowin but you don't have to be a brain surgeon to see that that they have more than their fair share of.........let's be polite and not sink to their level.....'young' followers........Just look at some of the XP/Vista/Mac threads to watch 'civil war' in action.........."

We all see the commercials saying that 40 is the new 30 and 30 is the new 20. Well it must follow that 20 is the new 10. Besides, these age group shifts are just excuses why these 30 and 40 year olds are still living at home and mooching off mom and dad. Rude negative comments are just showing their level of maturity if not their age. If you don't like it don't use it, if you find problems with a work then let the author know. Otherwise shut-up and let the people who seriously want to learn use the forums to do just that. End of my rant.

Alpha Tellurian
Reply #40 Friday, January 18, 2008 8:43 AM
it's unfortunate that Alpha Tellurian quit skinning because of negetive comments.


I agree! I really enjoyed it. It was a great way to pass time and I got allot of satisfaction out of it. But, every time I released something it was trounced before it could even get started. It was usually the same people, usually ones that had never made an attempt at contributing. I now make Windows Mobile Home Screens (when I'm not playing slave to my employer). The community seems more appreciative.

It's sad to see people put so much time into something only to have others berate it. I've seen quite a few skinners come and go just because of this topic alone. Not to mention the untold hours spent trying to put something decent together.

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