Poll Results: Site Sponsorships
Talk about a close one...
Monday, December 10, 2007 by Zoomba | Discussion: WinCustomize News
Wow, last week's poll was a lively one! And the results at the end were far and away different from how things were looking near the start of the week. To recap, the discussion was around additional ways to support the site in the future. One possibility that had been presented to us by our ad rep was a Site Sponsorship, a graphic that would be placed somewhere on the site for the duration of the sponsorship. The catch is that the image would be visible to everyone, even subscribers.
Here's how the voting came out:
The surprise for me by the end of the week was how much the "I might leave" option grew. For most of the week, the response seemed to be more or less receptive to the idea. But it ended out the week with a third of the vote. With the voting over, those in favor came out with 57% of the vote, while those opposed had 41%. With the voting coming so close, it's an issue we'll have to continue to debate before making any decisions.
The discussion on the topic went well over 100 posts, and remained entirely civil and constructive. It's probably one of the best discussions on site policy I've seen here in a long time. Thank you to everyone who tossed in their $0.02 and helped me get a better idea of where the community stood on the issue.
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Reply #42 Monday, December 10, 2007 8:47 PM
Reply #43 Monday, December 10, 2007 8:52 PM
I concur.
Reply #44 Monday, December 10, 2007 9:09 PM
Stardock never would have made it without WC. It was/is the perfect match and the unique factor. Obviously, SD has made quite a bit of money despite the money pit that is WC. DA would kill the skinning community as we know it today. The skinning community keeps stardock alive. Without the fine contributors that freely have made the thousands of skins for SD products you would have had to pay to have them made by a select handful of people. I don't know what I'm missing in this common sense equation, or what you fail to see. I'm not trying to stir a shitpile here. I would just like to know what makes you see it the way you do?
I'm going to attempt to say this without soundint too arrogant:
Having run a successful multi-million dollar business for a decade and a half, I think I have some idea of what made Stardock a success.
Do not kid yourself that Stardock needs WinCustomize. It does not. Even if we didn't team up with deviantART, Stardock could still simply have a simple gallery ala Winamp and other such programs.
Why do I see it this way? Because I know that a huge % of users come to WinCustomize because they are pointed here from Stardock.com in the first place. It's not the content driving the software. It's the software driving the content. People download the software first, THEN come here to get content. One doesn't need 5000+ skins for a skinnable thing to be a success.
The reason Stardock has continued to support WinCustomize is because of the community. We love you guys. We think the skinning community is worth it. But at the same time, we can't carry the load disproportionately indefinitely. WinCustomize costs Stardock over $600,000 a year to run. And through a combination of ads, subscriptions, and other means it needs to generate that much or the cost will have to be decreased or revenue increasesd.
Ads generate more revenue for WC now than the subscriptions.
Since we don't plan to close WinCustomize, the most obvious solution is increase the ads for non-subscribers substantially. And those who don't want the ads and want the other services of WC and want to support the site directly can buy a subscription ($30 for the first year, $20 to renew).
Reply #45 Monday, December 10, 2007 9:13 PM
Reply #46 Monday, December 10, 2007 9:14 PM
And what about the reverse?
Reply #47 Monday, December 10, 2007 9:17 PM
I can't remember, but I am pretty sure I came across at least one story where a company failed because they closed a non revenue generating cost center that was behind generating the business for the rest of the company.
Reply #48 Monday, December 10, 2007 9:26 PM
Reply #49 Monday, December 10, 2007 9:28 PM
Reply #50 Monday, December 10, 2007 9:30 PM
I can live with that.
I'd suggest maybe giving the "New Customer" like a 30 day or 3 month trial membership included with the purchase to get people used to no (or vastly reduced) ads. Limit some of the trial membership benefits such as no "free suites" reduced price Master skins etc. Then when the trial runs out and they suddenly are faced with the extra ads it will be more palatable to subscribe.
Reply #51 Monday, December 10, 2007 9:41 PM
Reply #52 Monday, December 10, 2007 9:57 PM
If you went to a restaurant and the meal sucked you'd probably refuse to pay.
If your mechanic didn't do the work he said he was going to do on your vehicle and asked you to pay for it anyway you would refuse.
If you bought a product and it didn't work as advertised you'd want your money back right? So why screw the customer?
I can live with a couple of poopoo ads here and there but if WC starts putting ads up it's against what we paid for. What about refunds? Don't count on it.
This is about business ethics and integrity. This is a great site right? So continue to offer us the goods and services we paid for. No ads please.
Reply #53 Monday, December 10, 2007 11:21 PM
This site won't be great if it doesn't have income to pay the bills..... this site will simply cease to exist.
And for what it's worth, I came to this site well before going to SD. It's this site that made me want to purchase ODNT, along with ObjectDock Plus and CXP Plus. If it weren't for WC, I wouldn't have spent the $75 to get those.
Reply #54 Monday, December 10, 2007 11:52 PM
If you went to a restaurant and the meal sucked you'd probably refuse to pay.
If your mechanic didn't do the work he said he was going to do on your vehicle and asked you to pay for it anyway you would refuse.
If you bought a product and it didn't work as advertised you'd want your money back right? So why screw the customer?
I can live with a couple of poopoo ads here and there but if WC starts putting ads up it's against what we paid for. What about refunds? Don't count on it.
This is about business ethics and integrity. This is a great site right? So continue to offer us the goods and services we paid for. No ads please.
Who said anything about ads for subscribers?
Also, let me be the first to articulate the wrongness in the universalism of "the customer is always right":
"The customer is always right" is a saying given by merchants selling something made by someone else. Their value-add to you, the customer, is in the quality of the service experience. You shop at clothing store A vs. clothing store B because of a variety of reasons -- one of which would be the quality of service.
By contrast, what you are dealing with here is a direct to manufacturer experience. And as the manufacturer, let me tell you that the customer is usually wrong. And as the CEO of said manufacturer, I don't look at myself as a servant of customers. I am manufacturing a product and providing a service in which other people find value in and voluntarily trade equal value for equal value. It is a symbiotic relationship of equals. I would simply stop producing and providing said products and services if I were expected to go against the principles that motivate me and my coworkers.
Now, that being said, the discussion originally had to do with whether subscribers would be willing to have a site sponsor which would be essentially the equivalent of one of those link buttons like this:
(but for some brand name)
If subscribers object to this, I am okay with that. The answer is to raise the cost of subscriptions to make up the lost revenue.
I can tell you that most people at Stardock are against having site sponsorship banners for subscribers precisely for the reasons other people object. It muddies the water and creates a slippery slope. However, we are in favor of increasing the subscription rate for new users to $29.95 but keep renewals at $19.95. This way, existing subscribers are protected in price and new users won't know the difference and can decide for themselves whether it's worth it to them or not.
Reply #55 Tuesday, December 11, 2007 12:13 AM
I can live with that.
So can I. I know that many might not agree, but I seriously wouldn't mind paying a bit more just to keep the site for subscribers ad-free.
Having ads on a site (even static ones) changes the feel of a site. Frogboy says that he keeps the site alive for the community. I feel it would be best if we preserve the community and keep it ad-free.
Reply #56 Tuesday, December 11, 2007 12:20 AM
kinda makes you wonder, those people who said that. seems they are prepared to come and take the files but not support the site. don't they realise that without the ad's the site would not be able to provide the amount of content they now enjoy. and if they want ad free browsing all they have to do is pay the 20 bucks which is one of the most worthwhile purchases around. keep up the truly fantastic work WC, you will be having my subscription money for many years to come
Reply #57 Tuesday, December 11, 2007 12:21 AM
Reply #58 Tuesday, December 11, 2007 12:27 AM
Reply #59 Tuesday, December 11, 2007 12:37 AM
Reply #60 Tuesday, December 11, 2007 12:44 AM
Brad, you're a good businessman - you've got to have been to have got this far and huge respect to you but if you honestly think that Stardock provides a huge amount of the traffic and the intro for Wincustomize then I think you are badly mistaken. I, like many people here, came to WC and I was simply stunned by the setup, the people/community, the libraries, the choice, the professionalizm.........I could go on and on........and after I had my cheekey ass busted a few times by Jafo - and I love him for doing coz I deserved it - I stayed and whizzed over to Stardock to buy the gear to make the stuff work............
Still, my comments are 'off subject' and I am one of those who supports advertising quite simply because I cannot see any other feasible alternative to pay for this sites existance.
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Reply #41 Monday, December 10, 2007 8:45 PM
I'm all for sponsorship or adds or anything to keep the site up.
deviantART.