Windows Update's Sneaky Updates
And you thought you were in control of which updates got loaded!
Thursday, September 13, 2007 by Philly0381 | Discussion: Personal Computing
It would appear that Microsoft is in the news alot today. We have the other thread about the Black Screen of Death and whether or not it's a rumor. Now I've come across this article. I've read this a few times, but it's above my limited level of meager computer knowledge. Just what are they talking about here?
I believe it was Phoon who pointed out in the other thread that Microsoft need to get WGA working properly before they go about doing other things, like clamping down of Pirates.
eWeek Mircosoft Watch
My eWEEK Labs colleague Andrew Garcia has independently confirmed a report that will appear in tomorrow's Windows Secrets newsletter: Windows Update is fetching and installing some updates without end users' consent.
WWW Link
EDIT: A second article on the same subject, Windows Update's Perception Problem
WWW Link
I believe it was Phoon who pointed out in the other thread that Microsoft need to get WGA working properly before they go about doing other things, like clamping down of Pirates.
eWeek Mircosoft Watch
My eWEEK Labs colleague Andrew Garcia has independently confirmed a report that will appear in tomorrow's Windows Secrets newsletter: Windows Update is fetching and installing some updates without end users' consent.
WWW Link
EDIT: A second article on the same subject, Windows Update's Perception Problem
WWW Link
Erk.
Reply #2 Thursday, September 13, 2007 10:41 PM
Reply #2 Thursday, September 13, 2007 10:41 PM
From what I've read at your top link, it would appear what is happening is that WU is updating it's own WU files ...something it checks for and updates [as necessary] every time you go to the MS [update] website anyway.
From the second link you provided:
"The files that are being updated are part of the Windows Update client itself. Windows Update automatically updates itself from time to time to ensure that it is running the most current technology, so that it can check for updates and notify customers that new updates are available. This is normal behavior, and it has worked this way since the service debuted several years ago."
I think that with all this recent talk of 'stealth' updates and 'black screens of death' ...the paranoid are coming out of the woodwork.
Bottom line is: "If you have a genuine copy of Windows, what have you got to fear?"
Personally, I couldn't give two hoots about what MS does with updates. I have a genuine copy of V.U. ...and if MS busts it with an update [stealth or not] I can prove that I am the licenseholder, and hold MS in good faith that if they break my windows, they'll make good on fixing it.
Tinfoil hat, anybody? 
Philly0381
Reply #3 Thursday, September 13, 2007 11:36 PM
Reply #3 Thursday, September 13, 2007 11:36 PM
Thanks for your reply Erk. I agree with you that folks that do have genuine software shouldn't have any worry. Like yourself I have nothing to worry about.
Is this more of a problem with Vista or across the board with Microsoft software?
Is this more of a problem with Vista or across the board with Microsoft software?
XX
Reply #4 Friday, September 14, 2007 1:28 AM
Reply #4 Friday, September 14, 2007 1:28 AM
The update violation can be IT nightmare. ALl updates must be tested, especially if you got a suite of 10 year old programs that won't work if you look at them wrong.
I'm glad I don't work as IT admin at this time.
I'm glad I don't work as IT admin at this time.
Philly0381
Reply #5 Friday, September 14, 2007 11:30 AM
Reply #5 Friday, September 14, 2007 11:30 AM
The story of the Black Screen of Death is, by some peoples thinking, only a hoax. If that is so, then can any of the leaks, as they are proported to be, be considered fact vs fiction or some scare tactic? 
starkers
Reply #6 Saturday, September 15, 2007 5:22 AM
Reply #6 Saturday, September 15, 2007 5:22 AM
I'm not concerned about those sneaky WGA updates, etc...what pisses me off are the sneaky updates to spider solitaire that make the game that much harder to get out. I swear one game I gave up on had too many sixes and eights....not enough kings and aces. 
WebGizmos
Reply #7 Sunday, September 16, 2007 7:53 AM
Reply #7 Sunday, September 16, 2007 7:53 AM
I have a genuine copy of XP....but when I reinstalled it I went through hell after WGA flagged it as a pirate copy and then having explaining this to the boneheads at microsoft. Eventually it got worked out...but I shouldn't have to go through that crap.
Disturbedcomputer
Reply #8 Sunday, September 16, 2007 8:06 AM
I agree !!!!
MS needs to focus more on the A holes that sneak in spyware and all That other stuff.
ok the Government needs to put an end to all the Spyware.
Reply #8 Sunday, September 16, 2007 8:06 AM
I have a genuine copy of XP....but when I reinstalled it I went through hell after WGA flagged it as a pirate copy and then having explaining this to the boneheads at microsoft. Eventually it got worked out...but I shouldn't have to go through that crap.
I agree !!!!
MS needs to focus more on the A holes that sneak in spyware and all That other stuff.
ok the Government needs to put an end to all the Spyware.
Gideon MacLeish
Reply #9 Sunday, September 16, 2007 8:30 AM
Perfect example: on a few models of computers, when SP2 is installed, the video drivers go south. It's not a big deal on a single computer, but can you imagine the nightmare if you came in to find 500-1000 computers with fried video drivers because of stealth updates?
Reply #9 Sunday, September 16, 2007 8:30 AM
The update violation can be IT nightmare. ALl updates must be tested, especially if you got a suite of 10 year old programs that won't work if you look at them wrong.
Perfect example: on a few models of computers, when SP2 is installed, the video drivers go south. It's not a big deal on a single computer, but can you imagine the nightmare if you came in to find 500-1000 computers with fried video drivers because of stealth updates?
Phoon
Reply #10 Sunday, September 16, 2007 9:23 AM
exactly. I see no harm in this at all. My copies are genuine.
I've seen this also, hence my response in the original post which Philly made reference too in this one..
SP2 is not a "stealth" update. One must choose to install it, unless of course you have WU set to auto install criticals. I shudder to think that a business with 500-1000 computers would do this.
A large network, if the network admin has any competency, will have an alternate method of patch management that would stop this "stealth update" process. As the articles mention, WSUS and SUS did not roll out this update.
Pretty much sums it up..
Reply #10 Sunday, September 16, 2007 9:23 AM
WU is updating it's own WU files
exactly. I see no harm in this at all. My copies are genuine.
went through hell after WGA flagged it as a pirate copy
I've seen this also, hence my response in the original post which Philly made reference too in this one..
on a few models of computers, when SP2 is installed, the video drivers go south. It's not a big deal on a single computer, but can you imagine the nightmare if you came in to find 500-1000 computers with fried video drivers because of stealth updates?
SP2 is not a "stealth" update. One must choose to install it, unless of course you have WU set to auto install criticals. I shudder to think that a business with 500-1000 computers would do this.
A large network, if the network admin has any competency, will have an alternate method of patch management that would stop this "stealth update" process. As the articles mention, WSUS and SUS did not roll out this update.
Bottom line is: "If you have a genuine copy of Windows, what have you got to fear?"
Pretty much sums it up..
Dr Guy
Reply #11 Sunday, September 16, 2007 10:12 AM
Only if you dont mind anyone just waltzing into your house unannounced whenever they feel like it.
Reply #11 Sunday, September 16, 2007 10:12 AM
Bottom line is: "If you have a genuine copy of Windows, what have you got to fear?"
Pretty much sums it up..
Pretty much sums it up..
Only if you dont mind anyone just waltzing into your house unannounced whenever they feel like it.
Gideon MacLeish
Reply #12 Sunday, September 16, 2007 10:18 AM
True. My point is, though, updates can be problematic. While this is not the norm, it DOES happen.
I download my updates and install them later. It gives me time to find out what the bugs are because, when there are bugs I'm the first to hear about them. IE7 is a great example of this. While IE7 runs wonderfully now, there were problems when it first issued. Problems that were patched and are fortunately no longer an issue. But problems that were sufficient enough for me to not want it running on my computer.
Oddly enough, nobody seems to be concerned about the security potential for someone able to exploit the code that allows stealth updates. The consensus seems to be that we're all criminals, paranoid we'll be "found out" about our pirated software. The issues, for me at least, revolve around software compatibility and security issues. It's just another reason to like Linux even more, as far as I'm concerned.
Reply #12 Sunday, September 16, 2007 10:18 AM
SP2 is not a "stealth" update. One must choose to install it, unless of course you have WU set to auto install criticals. I shudder to think that a business with 500-1000 computers would do this.
True. My point is, though, updates can be problematic. While this is not the norm, it DOES happen.
I download my updates and install them later. It gives me time to find out what the bugs are because, when there are bugs I'm the first to hear about them. IE7 is a great example of this. While IE7 runs wonderfully now, there were problems when it first issued. Problems that were patched and are fortunately no longer an issue. But problems that were sufficient enough for me to not want it running on my computer.
Oddly enough, nobody seems to be concerned about the security potential for someone able to exploit the code that allows stealth updates. The consensus seems to be that we're all criminals, paranoid we'll be "found out" about our pirated software. The issues, for me at least, revolve around software compatibility and security issues. It's just another reason to like Linux even more, as far as I'm concerned.
Dr Guy
Reply #13 Sunday, September 16, 2007 10:30 AM
For a while it was. Until Microsoft stopped being knee jerk and started scheduling them.
Reply #13 Sunday, September 16, 2007 10:30 AM
While this is not the norm, it DOES happen.
For a while it was. Until Microsoft stopped being knee jerk and started scheduling them.
Jafo
Reply #14 Sunday, September 16, 2007 11:01 AM
Reply #14 Sunday, September 16, 2007 11:01 AM
Only if you dont mind anyone just waltzing into your house unannounced whenever they feel like it.
I'll wager you'd be amazed just how many people have that right...
Gideon MacLeish
Reply #15 Sunday, September 16, 2007 11:36 AM
I'll wager you'd be amazed just how few...
Some may claim that right, doesn't mean they HAVE it!
However, the "house" analogy is not entirely valid, as Microsoft has reminded us for sometime that we don't actually OWN Windows.
Just like the old Ma Bell, "You're free to go somewhere else!"
Reply #15 Sunday, September 16, 2007 11:36 AM
I'll wager you'd be amazed just how many people have that right...
I'll wager you'd be amazed just how few...
Some may claim that right, doesn't mean they HAVE it!
However, the "house" analogy is not entirely valid, as Microsoft has reminded us for sometime that we don't actually OWN Windows.
Just like the old Ma Bell, "You're free to go somewhere else!"
Philly0381
Reply #16 Sunday, September 16, 2007 12:17 PM
Reply #16 Sunday, September 16, 2007 12:17 PM
Appreciate everyone who has replied. Thank you. 
Now go off and do something with the family!
Now go off and do something with the family!
Gideon MacLeish
Reply #17 Sunday, September 16, 2007 12:19 PM
Can't. Still have 3 hours, 41 minutes till quittin' time!
LOL!
Reply #17 Sunday, September 16, 2007 12:19 PM
Now go off and do something with the family!
Can't. Still have 3 hours, 41 minutes till quittin' time!
LOL!
Philly0381
Reply #18 Sunday, September 16, 2007 12:33 PM
Reply #18 Sunday, September 16, 2007 12:33 PM
Ooooh, I'm going to tell, wasting time on the computer for personal reasons!!!!!!!
Gideon MacLeish
Reply #19 Sunday, September 16, 2007 12:37 PM
umm, testing Internet connectivity!
Yeah, that's it. If the connection goes down, I'll be the first to know!
Reply #19 Sunday, September 16, 2007 12:37 PM
Ooooh, I'm going to tell, wasting time on the computer for personal reasons!!!!!!!
umm, testing Internet connectivity!
Yeah, that's it. If the connection goes down, I'll be the first to know!
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Reply #1 Thursday, September 13, 2007 9:34 PM