New DX Categories needed B A D
Wednesday, March 14, 2007 by RomanDA | Discussion: Widget talk
I know we have had discussions on new Gallery's but I really think we need these 2.
1. DX Gadgets - this would be for gadgets only, so people without DX could load these and know they would work, and people with DX would know that everything in the WIDGET Gallery is a widget that can be imported.
2. DX Weather/Clock - yes yes yes, anyone that has ever been in the DX Widgets gallery know that there and have done a "search" for "weather" will return you 7 pages of 32 widgets, or MORE. This is just weather, not to mention clocks. The problem is, these are almost all (not all Vad_M/Martin/Richard) the SAME widget, just with different "skins". Its getting old. you post something that you have spent a great deal of time working on, and in 2 days, its on page 3, behind 200 more of the SAME weather widgets.
If you agree, or disagree, please let us know. I think these could easily be added and would make things so much better. If DX is going to EVER evolve beyond a weather/clock widget maker, it has to be able to SHOW what is out there that ISNT one of these.
PLEASE PLEASE HEAR US!!!
1. DX Gadgets - this would be for gadgets only, so people without DX could load these and know they would work, and people with DX would know that everything in the WIDGET Gallery is a widget that can be imported.
2. DX Weather/Clock - yes yes yes, anyone that has ever been in the DX Widgets gallery know that there and have done a "search" for "weather" will return you 7 pages of 32 widgets, or MORE. This is just weather, not to mention clocks. The problem is, these are almost all (not all Vad_M/Martin/Richard) the SAME widget, just with different "skins". Its getting old. you post something that you have spent a great deal of time working on, and in 2 days, its on page 3, behind 200 more of the SAME weather widgets.
If you agree, or disagree, please let us know. I think these could easily be added and would make things so much better. If DX is going to EVER evolve beyond a weather/clock widget maker, it has to be able to SHOW what is out there that ISNT one of these.
PLEASE PLEASE HEAR US!!!
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RomanDA
Reply #82 Tuesday, March 20, 2007 5:19 PM
Reply #82 Tuesday, March 20, 2007 5:19 PM
I wrote a long response but i delete it..
Brad,
Can we PLEASE have a DX Gadgets Gallery?
Thats it, time to lock this post, its not worth fighting this fight. Its not doing anything but splitting people here. My fault, and I am sorry. ADMIN, please lock this thread. Thank you.
Brad,
Can we PLEASE have a DX Gadgets Gallery?
Thats it, time to lock this post, its not worth fighting this fight. Its not doing anything but splitting people here. My fault, and I am sorry. ADMIN, please lock this thread. Thank you.
thomassen
Reply #83 Tuesday, March 20, 2007 5:33 PM
Reply #83 Tuesday, March 20, 2007 5:33 PM
The thing is, since DesktopX uses VBScript and Javascript, then you'd think that more people with web undeveloped background would find it useful and interesting. Particularity with the whole AJAX and rich content development hype currently. Gadgets are very similar to AJAX apps. In fact nearly all gadgets use DHTML and JS except DX which got Objects to define the layout instead of HTML and CSS.
I wonder how much SD has focused on getting DX out to web developers, because it should be right in their ally. Scripting isn't really that hard to learn. There's so many good tutorials out there that anyone is able to, but they have to be willing to set off some time to learn it. I think the problem is that you have to read to learn it, not like many other things which got a UI, like photoshop where you can learn by clicking around.
The creativity you see in website, whether it's HTML+JS or Flash should be present in DX since it's back end and tools are so similar.
And I don't really get why VBS is the default language of DX and not JS seeing as JS is more widespread.
I wonder how much SD has focused on getting DX out to web developers, because it should be right in their ally. Scripting isn't really that hard to learn. There's so many good tutorials out there that anyone is able to, but they have to be willing to set off some time to learn it. I think the problem is that you have to read to learn it, not like many other things which got a UI, like photoshop where you can learn by clicking around.
The creativity you see in website, whether it's HTML+JS or Flash should be present in DX since it's back end and tools are so similar.
And I don't really get why VBS is the default language of DX and not JS seeing as JS is more widespread.
Vad_M
Reply #84 Tuesday, March 20, 2007 7:30 PM
Reply #84 Tuesday, March 20, 2007 7:30 PM
I'm on dial up. Sorry...
David! This isn't your fault. This is very important and frank chat which opened my eyes. As well as which has freed me from vain illusions. And I think that it will not split people here. It will unite them.
Thank you.
Zubaz! Your words are much wise and I will do this in a nearest future.
First of all I must finish one large project. Then I'll stop my works on widgets and begin to write articles about DX Scripting. I have more than 250 scripts in my archive which uses Windows API, WMI and a lot of different ActiveX objects (I spent more than two years of my life to create it). I need to classify these scripts and choose the best. Then I'll post their here with a comments.
I'm really know how to make applications like SysMetrix and Rainlendar with DX PRO. But this work may takes a several months and I don't understand who will feed my family while I play with this... (little joke) But if seriously we may realise this idea.
David! This isn't your fault. This is very important and frank chat which opened my eyes. As well as which has freed me from vain illusions. And I think that it will not split people here. It will unite them.
Thank you.Zubaz! Your words are much wise
and I will do this in a nearest future. First of all I must finish one large project. Then I'll stop my works on widgets and begin to write articles about DX Scripting. I have more than 250 scripts in my archive which uses Windows API, WMI and a lot of different ActiveX objects (I spent more than two years of my life to create it). I need to classify these scripts and choose the best. Then I'll post their here with a comments.
I'm really know how to make applications like SysMetrix and Rainlendar with DX PRO. But this work may takes a several months and I don't understand who will feed my family while I play with this... (little joke) But if seriously we may realise this idea.
c242
Reply #85 Wednesday, March 21, 2007 1:41 AM
OK, here's an idea. One Carl has been advocating (to a degree) I think.
Create a new app with DX Pro. Call it RainWeather or something like that. Make it easier to skin than the DX weather. Make it like Xion (which really needs a galery here
) Write a easy tutorial and watch the weather skinners flock to it.
Zubaz, I think DX is pretty much limited when it comes to that. I don't think You can realize that only by script (and I believe that until a master comes along and does it). I like Your idea of just taking parts of a windowblind or even a single photoshop file to build backgrounds, but is that really possible at this state of DX development ? I think if it is, someone would have made a widget that is capable of it. At this pont I see noc chance to do that.
So what I am always missing in DesktopX are official words from the developer or some helping hand from an official side. Or a plugin, named 'WBImporter' or something like that.
If You want people to push the limits of DX (and in my mind Vad and Roman are the only ones that do that to a great extend), don't let 'just' users fiddle with things and write tutorials. I think Stardock is a little 'lazy' in terms of documentation, which is still a point Brad mentioned in his article some time ago but I see no improvement comimg for some time. Also I am fully aware that it is a problem of manpower and can't be solved shortly.
As for my little personal project : Many people tend to download it, but looking at the feedback I really don't even know if any of them are using it besides the few that reported problems or gave suggestions. And looking at the widget gallery there is no intend of the weather-makers to try and use it. And I haven't seen one single screenshot containing it. So, besides making it for my own use and learning purposes, what is the point anyway ?
To clarify it : I don't see it as the next Uber-widget (looking at the works of Roman or Vad I still feel like a newbie), but I thought it could change a little something. It clearly failed completely. A reason for that could be I complicated things with the ini file, but the main reason for that is simply DX bugs like not storing or simply forgetting local storage and preferences. Was that fixed although it is known for a very long time ? No. Update cycles became too slow, not to mention You have no chance to see betas (which may contain fixes if You are lucky besides new functions) if You own DX pro...
Reply #85 Wednesday, March 21, 2007 1:41 AM
OK, here's an idea. One Carl has been advocating (to a degree) I think.
Create a new app with DX Pro. Call it RainWeather or something like that. Make it easier to skin than the DX weather. Make it like Xion (which really needs a galery here
) Write a easy tutorial and watch the weather skinners flock to it.Zubaz, I think DX is pretty much limited when it comes to that. I don't think You can realize that only by script (and I believe that until a master comes along and does it). I like Your idea of just taking parts of a windowblind or even a single photoshop file to build backgrounds, but is that really possible at this state of DX development ? I think if it is, someone would have made a widget that is capable of it. At this pont I see noc chance to do that.
So what I am always missing in DesktopX are official words from the developer or some helping hand from an official side. Or a plugin, named 'WBImporter' or something like that.
If You want people to push the limits of DX (and in my mind Vad and Roman are the only ones that do that to a great extend), don't let 'just' users fiddle with things and write tutorials. I think Stardock is a little 'lazy' in terms of documentation, which is still a point Brad mentioned in his article some time ago but I see no improvement comimg for some time. Also I am fully aware that it is a problem of manpower and can't be solved shortly.As for my little personal project : Many people tend to download it, but looking at the feedback I really don't even know if any of them are using it besides the few that reported problems or gave suggestions. And looking at the widget gallery there is no intend of the weather-makers to try and use it. And I haven't seen one single screenshot containing it. So, besides making it for my own use and learning purposes, what is the point anyway ?
To clarify it : I don't see it as the next Uber-widget (looking at the works of Roman or Vad I still feel like a newbie), but I thought it could change a little something. It clearly failed completely. A reason for that could be I complicated things with the ini file, but the main reason for that is simply DX bugs like not storing or simply forgetting local storage and preferences. Was that fixed although it is known for a very long time ? No. Update cycles became too slow, not to mention You have no chance to see betas (which may contain fixes if You are lucky besides new functions) if You own DX pro...
Fairyy~
Reply #86 Wednesday, March 21, 2007 3:06 AM
No need to lock the thread at all. I think it brought up lots of interesting points. I will admit I felt I was being ' snubbed' a bit in the beginning but in the long run I do agree with most of all the comments.
Gadget should have a separate Galley.
Mainly because they do NOT require DesktopX to run...and it would make it easier for those that are looking for Gadgets only. I have always agreed with this point - I have stated it in past forum posts. But, Gallery space is limited and with all the new Vista items coming about I'm sure Stardock will put Galleries where they think there is more call for at this time.
DesktopX needs a face lift - even now the DX version still comes with widgets that are fairly old which boils down to old script. Some of you out there are lucky enough to be able to play around and alter script a bit so you can get a variety of different functions. I don't understand script but that doesn't mean the few widgets I do make aren't useful to some people. Most of my widgets are geared for females. I try to upload only 1 or 2 a month - if that..
I try to stagger things I make so I don't end up with multiple items in a row in a gallery.
But, sometimes the queue builds up and all items are released at once. But thats the way it is in all galleries ....not something that anyone can control...
Reply #86 Wednesday, March 21, 2007 3:06 AM
Roman:I wrote a long response but i delete it..
Brad,
Can we PLEASE have a DX Gadgets Gallery?
Thats it, time to lock this post, its not worth fighting this fight. Its not doing anything but splitting people here. My fault, and I am sorry. ADMIN, please lock this thread. Thank you.
Brad,
Can we PLEASE have a DX Gadgets Gallery?
Thats it, time to lock this post, its not worth fighting this fight. Its not doing anything but splitting people here. My fault, and I am sorry. ADMIN, please lock this thread. Thank you.
No need to lock the thread at all. I think it brought up lots of interesting points. I will admit I felt I was being ' snubbed' a bit in the beginning but in the long run I do agree with most of all the comments.
Gadget should have a separate Galley.
Mainly because they do NOT require DesktopX to run...and it would make it easier for those that are looking for Gadgets only. I have always agreed with this point - I have stated it in past forum posts. But, Gallery space is limited and with all the new Vista items coming about I'm sure Stardock will put Galleries where they think there is more call for at this time.
DesktopX needs a face lift - even now the DX version still comes with widgets that are fairly old which boils down to old script. Some of you out there are lucky enough to be able to play around and alter script a bit so you can get a variety of different functions. I don't understand script but that doesn't mean the few widgets I do make aren't useful to some people. Most of my widgets are geared for females. I try to upload only 1 or 2 a month - if that..
I try to stagger things I make so I don't end up with multiple items in a row in a gallery.
But, sometimes the queue builds up and all items are released at once. But thats the way it is in all galleries ....not something that anyone can control...
c242
Reply #88 Wednesday, March 21, 2007 3:23 AM
Reply #88 Wednesday, March 21, 2007 3:23 AM
Please don't see this as bashing or something, I just state the problems I am having with DX.
Regarding the outdated weather script : Stardock quietly released a new plugin for weather with their payable suites. Documentation ? None I know of (or is there any ?). And due to the closed source character of those gadgets we have no chance to fiddle with it.
Regarding the outdated weather script : Stardock quietly released a new plugin for weather with their payable suites. Documentation ? None I know of (or is there any ?). And due to the closed source character of those gadgets we have no chance to fiddle with it.
RomanDA
Reply #89 Wednesday, March 21, 2007 6:02 AM
Thats a shame.. I didnt even know they released anything like that.
Reply #89 Wednesday, March 21, 2007 6:02 AM
Regarding the outdated weather script : Stardock quietly released a new plugin for weather with their payable suites. Documentation ? None I know of (or is there any ?). And due to the closed source character of those gadgets we have no chance to fiddle with it.
Thats a shame.. I didnt even know they released anything like that.
Tiggz
Reply #91 Wednesday, March 21, 2007 7:36 AM
Reply #91 Wednesday, March 21, 2007 7:36 AM
I would generally agree with most things David has said on this issue, with one caveat:
If ALL weather/clock/standard widgets are put in their own gallery, this will act as a disincentive to create new, more interesting and functional variations on these themes.
Personally, I have no problem with people reskinning existing widgets. After all, what is the WB gallery, but countless reskins of the same format? I agree however that it was sometimes disheartening to work for months on a 1000+ lines of script widget, upload it, and watch it vanish rapidly in the morass of reskins.
Perhaps the solution would be to seperate original widgets and reskins? My definition of a reskin would be a widget where essentially only the graphics had been alterred, but adding 3 lines of code would not qualify it as an original widget. Of course this would be more moderation intensive and therefore perhaps not viable.
There are standard widgets and niche widgets (as I see it). Standard widgets would include weather, calendars, clocks, meters, todolists - widgets that would be useful to almost anyone. As such, I still enjoy developing new variations of the standard widgets, I have a weather widget on the go for example. Whilst I would applaud any attempt to address the issues that David has raised, I wouldn't necessarily like weather widgets to be discriminated against en masse.
I hope that made sense.
If ALL weather/clock/standard widgets are put in their own gallery, this will act as a disincentive to create new, more interesting and functional variations on these themes.
Personally, I have no problem with people reskinning existing widgets. After all, what is the WB gallery, but countless reskins of the same format? I agree however that it was sometimes disheartening to work for months on a 1000+ lines of script widget, upload it, and watch it vanish rapidly in the morass of reskins.
Perhaps the solution would be to seperate original widgets and reskins? My definition of a reskin would be a widget where essentially only the graphics had been alterred, but adding 3 lines of code would not qualify it as an original widget
. Of course this would be more moderation intensive and therefore perhaps not viable.There are standard widgets and niche widgets (as I see it). Standard widgets would include weather, calendars, clocks, meters, todolists - widgets that would be useful to almost anyone. As such, I still enjoy developing new variations of the standard widgets, I have a weather widget on the go for example. Whilst I would applaud any attempt to address the issues that David has raised, I wouldn't necessarily like weather widgets to be discriminated against en masse.
I hope that made sense.
RomanDA
Reply #93 Wednesday, March 21, 2007 7:59 AM
Reply #93 Wednesday, March 21, 2007 7:59 AM
I keep hearing "just search for what you want to see". But how do i EXCLUDE something from the search? With the OLD site we could "PICK" from a list of options like [ ] clock [ ] calendar [ ] weather, etc. But we lost that on the new layout. There is no "easy" way (or a way at all?) to list out just things that are NOT weather/clock/to-do/etc??? is that possible now? And how would someone know how to do this?
Stardock?? WC ADMINS?? Are any of you watching this at all? Does anyone know a way to do this???
Until we get some WC/SD people to at least acknoledge that this thread/issue is out here, there is no reason to keep going back and forth.
I think we ALL agree that a DX Gadgets gallery is needed, but WE don't make anything happen here, WE are not in charge of the site (not that i want to be). So, unless SD/WC takes some interest in this issue, there is no point in going on and on.
Stardock?? WC ADMINS?? Are any of you watching this at all? Does anyone know a way to do this???
Until we get some WC/SD people to at least acknoledge that this thread/issue is out here, there is no reason to keep going back and forth.
I think we ALL agree that a DX Gadgets gallery is needed, but WE don't make anything happen here, WE are not in charge of the site (not that i want to be). So, unless SD/WC takes some interest in this issue, there is no point in going on and on.
Fairyy~
Reply #94 Wednesday, March 21, 2007 8:06 AM
See - mention a name and they are bound to hear you
Im sure they are reading - maybe they are trying to think on it before replying.
Reply #94 Wednesday, March 21, 2007 8:06 AM
Tiggz:I hope that made sense.
See - mention a name and they are bound to hear you
I think we ALL agree that a DX Gadgets gallery is needed, but WE don't make anything happen here, WE are not in charge of the site (not that i want to be). So, unless SD/WC takes some interest in this issue, there is no point in going on and on.
Im sure they are reading - maybe they are trying to think on it before replying.
Tiggz
Reply #95 Wednesday, March 21, 2007 8:09 AM
Reply #95 Wednesday, March 21, 2007 8:09 AM
Yes, more powerful filtering tools would certainly go a long way to addressing these issues.
Zubaz!!!!
Zubaz!!!!
Vad_M
Reply #96 Wednesday, March 21, 2007 10:45 AM
Reply #96 Wednesday, March 21, 2007 10:45 AM
WOW!!! WAKE ME PLEASE IF I'M SLEEPPING!!! 
Hi Matt!!! I'm happy to see you again! And I think that Today is a Great day for Wincustomize as well as for our Community.
Welcome back MASTER!
Hi Matt!!! I'm happy to see you again! And I think that Today is a Great day for Wincustomize as well as for our Community.
Welcome back MASTER!
Tiggz
Reply #97 Wednesday, March 21, 2007 11:36 AM
Reply #97 Wednesday, March 21, 2007 11:36 AM
Hi Vad!
Yes, I have awoken from my slumbers. I took at least 1 year off when I didn't skin anything - the reasons are too long and complicated to get into
The last 2 months I have started skinning again - I have 3 unfinished WB, 60 icons into an iconpack, and maybe 10 incomplete widgets (some of these are left over from 2 years ago, but they ask me to finish them, 1 of which is a WB skin using widget).
I saw this thread and was compelled to respond. Widgets are my primary love in skinning terms, and any discussion about promoting them in the general conciousness, making them more accesible, is very welcome. Since day 1 I have felt that widgets have an enourmous potential, but it is a potential that is rarely achieved. Even if certain developers reach that potential with individual widgets (vad, romanDA, and many others) the dx widget scene as a whole is confusing and amorphous, of which the current gallery layout is indicative.
More than any other section at Wincustomize, widgets comprise a huge range of creations - from simple reskins, to very complex mini-programs. I would love to see these different approaches being given their own sections, or at least some kind of differentiation in the galleries. How this would be achieved in practice, I don't really know, but any discussion toward that end can only be a good thing.
Yes, I have awoken from my slumbers. I took at least 1 year off when I didn't skin anything - the reasons are too long and complicated to get into
The last 2 months I have started skinning again - I have 3 unfinished WB, 60 icons into an iconpack, and maybe 10 incomplete widgets (some of these are left over from 2 years ago, but they ask me to finish them, 1 of which is a WB skin using widget).
I saw this thread and was compelled to respond. Widgets are my primary love in skinning terms, and any discussion about promoting them in the general conciousness, making them more accesible, is very welcome. Since day 1 I have felt that widgets have an enourmous potential, but it is a potential that is rarely achieved. Even if certain developers reach that potential with individual widgets (vad, romanDA, and many others) the dx widget scene as a whole is confusing and amorphous, of which the current gallery layout is indicative.
More than any other section at Wincustomize, widgets comprise a huge range of creations - from simple reskins, to very complex mini-programs. I would love to see these different approaches being given their own sections, or at least some kind of differentiation in the galleries. How this would be achieved in practice, I don't really know, but any discussion toward that end can only be a good thing.
NightTrainthedark
Reply #98 Wednesday, March 21, 2007 11:46 AM
Reply #98 Wednesday, March 21, 2007 11:46 AM
First IR Brainiac returns and now Tiggz. It's gonna be a great year!
RomanDA
Reply #99 Wednesday, March 21, 2007 12:55 PM
Does that mean the widget uses the skin of the current WB ????
That is something I have been wanting to make...
and WELCOME BACK!! You have been MISSED!
Reply #99 Wednesday, March 21, 2007 12:55 PM
1 of which is a WB skin using widget
Does that mean the widget uses the skin of the current WB ????
That is something I have been wanting to make...
and WELCOME BACK!! You have been MISSED!
ArileenDesign
Reply #100 Wednesday, March 21, 2007 1:02 PM
euh Maybe here:
Aya Tiggz
Reply #100 Wednesday, March 21, 2007 1:02 PM
But how do i EXCLUDE something from the search? With the OLD site we could "PICK" from a list of options like [ ] clock [ ] calendar [ ] weather, etc. But we lost that on the new layout. There is no "easy" way (or a way at all?) to list out just things that are NOT weather/clock/to-do/etc??? is that possible now? And how would someone know how to do this?
euh Maybe here:
Aya Tiggz
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Reply #81 Tuesday, March 20, 2007 4:39 PM
Hey! Watch the titles wacking about. I've got a project called "Rainmaker" in concept phase...bet you can't guess what that does!