I'm going to take the "wrong" view.

I don't think that the site should "break-off" a section of the galleries just because it's "popular".  I'd rather see more *customizeation* of the site and let the user hide catagories of content unless specifically chosen.

If your suggestion went through all of the sudden you would start seeing fragmentation of all the galleries into tiny sub catagories and good stuff might be lost to the casual user and there would start to bbe a demand for this or that "specialist" to have their own gallery.  That would suck too.

My $0.02

Zubaz, I agree that fragmenting existing galleries would perhaps be more confusing. However, Gadgets are deserving of their own gallery for a number of reasons.

One, sometimes you just want to show off your work not the underlying codes. Two, sample or limited versions would be a good segway to directing potential customers to desktopgadgets.com to purchase more powerful/feature rich versions.

I think I'll do my next upload of the "Folder Maker" like this. The object will be a basic example, to widget with a few more features, then the gadget will have skinned Message/Input boxes, etc.

More customization also sounds good and one thing I would definitely like to see is keywords added to the upload options.

SirSmiley, I agree with you in that Gadgets need to be separate.  Beyond that, not so much.

I like what you describe in your stages of complexity going with more secure types of "things".  The next step is what RomanDA has done . . selling the best of the best.

You have my support and encouragement.

I'm all for being able to LIMIT what is shown when "I" look at the listings.. but that does nothing to the person who comes in to look at what's NEW.

The only solution is to get people to stop making 10000000 new lame weather widgets.
There are only a few of them doing it, and its ridiculous.

As I pointed out in another thread, there are ways to make 1 gadget/widget work with MULTIPLE skins/layouts. I think there would be a lot less bitching if instead of posting 10 new skinned widgets of the same weather widget in 1 week they made 1 widget with 10 skins, changeable via a button, or popup menu. I was trying to find it but I cant, there was a new CLOCK created that had multiple SKINS and looks, and it was very nice. That would be so much more preferred to the BOMBING of the galley with 200 copies of the same thing.

Ok how about this..

DX OBJECTS - CLOCKS/WEATHER/ICONS/ETC all the BASIC Items DX Can produce
DX WIDGETS - Programs that involve more work, Things that REQUIRE CODING, Things like menu bars, To-do Lists, FUZZY, things that are not a simple clone of something else.
DX GADGETS - GADGETS as discussed before. Programs that can be TRIAL versions, protected code versions of apps, etc. Look over what I said before.

This only adds 1 new Gallery, and make the OBJECTS gallery make some more sense.
Better compromise?

I also think that posting "TRIAL" or "LIMITED" versions of a gadget is a great way to let people look/use/try out your program without giving them all the functions of the PRO or FULL version.  And yes, I took it to the next level by starting my own store/site to sell my own gadgets.  I needed more control then DG was giving me.  IE: the HC PRO I created has had 2 updates, and with the system I have in place now (IE my own site) I was able to contact the people who purchased the program, and send them an update.  With DG.com there is no way to know who purchases your program, or have any way to contact them.  And the 50% was killing me.  But that's for another thread.  I'm still looking to add people to the new site, with new programs, if your interested, email me.

While understand the frustration with the weather widgets. I'm kind of split on this as my understanding is that a great deal of them are made to match window blinds. IMO skinnable widgets should resolve that?

Yes, and i would love to work a way to read the WB skin and match the weather/clock to that skin. But since i know nothing about WB im not sure how this could be done.

As for this solving the situation, i dont see that, as even though a lot of the weather/clocks are to match a wb skin, they are not the same shape, size, layout, etc. and i can people still making these that have nothing to do with WB skins. The reason we are seeing so many of them right now is because we have several people who have made a hobby out of taking a wb skin's graphics, and pasting them into a common weather widget. Without any real knowledge of how DX works, or how to MAKE graphics.

I'm done.. i have said all i can, and it seems that there has been no input from SD/WC admins (except Zu) so who knows.. its not worth beating a dead horse.

David, you have finally told I thought about but couldn't verbalize! These galleries will be a great steps onward. But it seems to me that it may solve only a half of problem.

Look at the gallery with DX Themes. Many of new additions have more than 1000 downloads per day. Why? Because this gallery is very popular as well as because DX Theme unlike a widget allow to its user a lot of different functions.

Now look at the Widget's gallery. Weather, weather and again weather. I think that popularity of this gallery may definitively fall down if we will not do nothing. So we need make something greater than clock, calendar, todo etc... to return the past Glory for this Gallery. (And Stardock could help us with this if they really want to see more visitors here).

About DG.com. I think the main problem of this place is not in percents. I can work 50/50. But only if summary sales will more than 200-300 per month for each new gadget. But this is impossible because DG have no enough visitors per day. On this reason I don't see any sense to make gadgets for sale. So I'll send their simplified versions here and wait until this situation will not be changed.

I Agree with your words about dead horse...   

Wait a minute, I'm confused. I thought there was a fundamental (if slight) difference between the widgets and objects. Widgets only require DX to be installed (good), and objects require it to actually be running, right?

right Bebi and Gadgets no need DX on your computer

Okay, I've just gotta say this because it's been bugging me for a while. I don't see any demand. As much as we'd like to see the galleries filled with mind-blowing widgets, you go to the most popular hall of fame and you will find weather, clocks, to do lists, and wallpaper changers. It is evident that this is what as vast majority of people want. They need to know the time and date, they need to know the weather, they need to make a list, and they'd like to change their wallpaper and look at family photos.

There's a difference between what developers/coders see as extremely important and what the end-users see as important. As a coder I want to see DX make great advancments. I want to see all the amazing things it can do. As and end-user I have a grand total of 2 widgets on my desktop right now. One of them is a clock.

How do you reconcile the fact that we need to continue to make advanced developments in DX and the fact that the average user (the non-coder) just wants to know the time and weather? No matter how superior the coding or ingenious the idea, doesn't it come down to whether or not this is something the end-user will want/need?

Thoughts?

I know just how you feel Roman. I'm still waiting for the ObjectDock library to get straightened out, and I've been asking for that for quite awhile now. I haven't uploaded any new docks for lately because I got tired of them getting buried under icon/pngs. Since the argument for the pngs is that they are used with ObjectDock so they get put in the same library, and the same could be said for DesktopX. At least you have separate Objects & Widgets libraries...just be glad they aren't stuck in there with the Objects and getting buried since they are both used with DesktopX.

I had the same sort of argument regarding the icons/pngs that your having regarding importing widgets...icons can easily be converted to pngs, but rather than letting people convert them themselves get stuck in the ObjectDock library.

So...I hate to say it....but don't expect anything to get done about it any time soon.

To sViz: You are absolutely right about what people want. However the demand is always defined by proposal. May be they need something else? But they can't find here nothing except clocks, weather and calendars. Which uses outdated scripts by the way...

In what cases we are ready to do any work? First off all if this work bring us some money (or gives confidence on a good earnings in the nearest future). As well as if this work deliver a big pleasure for us. (Obviously the widgets creation pertains to the second case...)

If we love our work and want to increase the widgets creation we must form this proposal and show to people something new every time. And I think that it would be great if Wincustomize Admins help us and start a special Vote to study this. For example they may ask to people a question like "What new widgets you should like see in the Widgets Gallery?" or "What types of widgets you do always use on your desktop and what do you need else to make it much useful?" etc...

Otherwise our activity here is deprived of any sense. At least for me...

Well as one of those " Evil " Weather widget skinners ( I thought this was a skinning site btw ) I currently have 16 widgets in the widget library. 4 are time/date oriented and the other 12 are OMG Weather Widgets...sorry my 12 weather widgets are so disturbing. Personally I don't care if you want to make an " Elite Widget Gallery " Makes no difference to me at all. I have always said that Gadgets do not belong mixed with Widgets - some do not like Gadgets as they do not respond to the F9 or F10 hide/show option. But, thats a moot point.
sviz has made a good point..if the weather widgets are such " Evil crap " then why do the end users keep downloading them ? I make a background to suit a Windowblind that the windowblind skinner ASKS me to do..I do not chase them around looking for permission to make a Weather to match..Im asked. When I said I no longer wanted to make them - again I was asked by the WB Skinner to please not stop making them for her. Occasionally I make one that has no WB associated with it.

I have read the comments here for days - lets not forget that if DesktopX was ONLY for the Super intelligent crowd of programmers and Script writers then sales on DesktopX might dwindle to a handful. I spend my time encouraging people that find DX impossible to figure out. Its not an easy program for the masses - but it can be a " fun" program too. Im all for widgets that actually can make my life easier ....but it seems after the initial introduction of DesktopX and objects/widgets the interest in finding new and unique ideas ran out. You all bitch about weather widgets and I felt the same way about CPU meters. I can live without those no problem.

I do recall Martin making weather - Calendar - clocks and encouraging people to use his scripts to enjoy DesktopX.

You select few are pretty much saying that you feel your the only ones worthy of being in the Widget gallery and the rest of us lowly weather/clock/calendar ' skinners' should go away.

Ok, my vote - give them a Gadget library and or whatever THEY want - the rest of us are just paying customers that don't matter.

Honestly I want nearly the same. And I agree with the majority of your words.

There was two Great Mans here (Martin and Tiggs) that took a lot efforts to make a good stuff for us. Where these people now and why nobody who hitherto uses their scripts can't answer me: What happened with these people? Why they leaved this place? Nobody didn't give me any replies about...

I love DesktopX. And I'm ready to help for everybody who want to study this software daily and nightly! But I don't like a slackers which not only don't want know anything new about DesktopX Scripting but not even remember about the people who have maked all of scripts examples on this page...

What widgets are? "Widgets are mini programs that reside on your computer. You only need to have DesktopX installed in order to use them." It means that Widget is a SCRIPT first of all! And then a SKIN which attached on this script. But we can see the other situation. A lot of skins for the same script. This is dead end where any progress just will be stopped.

So I think that we need do something with this.

Yeah, I wondered too where Martin and Tiggs disappeared...

This brings up another important point, actually it's still the developer/end-user aspect of this debate, there are only so many (or so few depending on how you look at it) people that CAN make the super-widgets. I'd venture to guess that the vast majority of DX users are just that-- users. There are many reasons for this. DX may just be a hobby so they do not have enough time to delve into the innerworkings of this program, or they may occassionally want to make something of their own but do not have the know-how to make anything more than a clock or weather widget (not to mention the scarce amount of good step-by-step tutorials to show them how-to *kudos to DA for his efforts*). When they do make something they are proud of (big or small) this is the place to share it with others. DX isn't so easy to learn; I myself often struggle to learn more and it takes a good deal of passion and patience to stick with it (not to mention time I don't always have). Let's face it, you have to have 'talent' to pull off some of the super-widgets I've seen; not everyone has that. I would hate for there to be an atmosphere where those who don't 'have it' feel like their creations are worthless.

Someone in this thread mentioned something about having a power widget section for professional works. I really don't think we should start segregating the galleries by who we think is more professional than others. We all know who the big dogs are and we can watch their skins, do a search for them, or even sort the libraries by ratings. By saying, "these widgets are over here because they are better than the rest" it would go without saying that "these other widgets don't belong because, well, they are inferior". I believe the rating system is enough to sort that out (not to mention the Master Skins section). Aside from that, if I'm being honest, I think that would discourage the open and friendly sharing atmosphere I came upon when I first joined this community. I wouldn't have felt comfortable uploading my first widgets to the gallery if there were some notion that it had to be of a professional high-standard to be worthy of showing in the gallery. (Again, the rating system takes care of that, too, as a widget has to be of a certain rating to actually be displayed in the gallery.) Honestly, it was the fact that I saw so many weather widgets and clocks that I felt it was okay to upload something that wasn't much of a super-widget.


I can see and identify with both sides here. I'm all for a weather and clock section-- not because I think they are crap and need to be shoved aside -- but because they are popular enough to have their own category (the hall of fame proves this). Those stopping by looking for clocks and weather (and there are alot of people who are) can go straight to that section and browse to their heart's content. But if they are looking for something different they can go to general and take a gander at what else is cooking in DX.
So, for me, it's not so much of being selective and weighing professional works against not-so-professional works (because truly their respective values are in the eye of the beholder) it's about giving everyone room to create, share, and grow. I understand that there are those who work extremely hard on their creations and would like for their work to not end up buried on page 15 the next day. Their work inspires others to acheive something unique and inventive with DX. I also understand that there are those who may not work months perfecting their code but work hard just the same at their creations whether it's a clock or another weather widget. Their work also inspires; it inspires others to 'jump in' to DX and they don't have to know a ton of vBscript to create something of their own and have fun with it too. The way I see it, the developers (serious-coders) and the weather/clock widget makers are both needed to get people to: A. jump in because it's 'fun & easy' and B. to keep at learning more because it can be 'powerful and cutting edge'. We should be considerate of these 2 fields. They show the full-range of what DX can do- from simple to complex-, and the wide spectrum of who can learn to use DX- casual hobbyists and serious developers alike.

And "WE" are NOT PAYING CUSTOMERS? Since when? I not only paid for DX I paid for PRO, I paid for WB, OD, And a ton more, I have paid for my subscription to WC (which I believe I have uploaded MORE then I have downloaded in the past 2 years). So don’t be starting this crap about PAYING customers... that’s not the point at all.



No, that’s not what I’m saying at all, I’m trying to help make and ensure a FUTURE for DX not just a rehash of the same 1 widget over and over. and VAD is right, the weather widgets code is VERY old now (in internet years), and had been proven to have problems. How will this ever be found out if no one knows how to CODE, just SKIN?



If I was so freaking ELITE why the hell would I take the HOURS and HOURS I have taken me to write the multiple tutorials I have posted. Hell yeah I SELL my stuff, and damn I’m raking in the $.. in the past 2 years I believe I have made about $300 for about 300 hours of work, at that rate I should be making shoes in some 3rd world country. If it was about MONEY or STATUS or some other CRAP I would not be doing these Tutorials. -- as for GADGET vs WIDGETS, that’s all about trying to not be ripped off in 10 mins by someone who wants to SKIN something that spent me MONTHS to make work. And As I have said since the first time I made a gadget, that we need a place to split them out from widgets. And I DO post when things are GADGETS not widgets, as I’m trying to reach EVERYONE not just people with DX installed.

I think that’s what DesktopGadgets.com was going to be, but it has never been done right, it takes weeks to get something uploaded, and weeks to put up a simple update. If it was re-made then this might be a moot point.

As for why MARTIN and TIGGS have left, I wish I knew, but I have a feeling it’s because like everyone else they get tired. Making a 2000+ line program is a major undertaking. And it gets tiring to put things out there only to see 100-200 downloads when the next skin up is the same weather/clock widget that has been skinned 200 times. It makes you wonder what the point it.



Yes he did, and I made my own versions of these, but the point has always been to use them to LEARN how things work, not just modify them and upload them back up. The simple "Chrome Dome Clock" went from a single clock with 1 skin, to one using a bunch of PNG files, to one using 2 PNG's (B/W, COLOR) and changing HUE/BRIGHTNESS, so that 1 widget allowed me to START working in DX, and GROW from there to learn HOW DX does things and build on that. And I do believe I "ENCOURAGE" people by making my tutorials, trying VERY hard to start at the level of knowing nothing, and working up.

As for Learning VBSCRIPT/JAVASCRIPT, I have only been working with DX for 3 years, before that I had been working on Real Jukebox Skins, and WMP Skins. I remember posting a WMP skin, and then making 6 more colors for it, same skin, just different colors. I was BLASTED buy numerous people, including TSF and others telling me I was flooding the gallery. Then they also offered to show me how to make it so I could just zip them, or even make one that changed colors. My point here is this, I have offered up my code, to anyone that wants to use it, to make a single widget with multiple colors, I have offered up STEP-BY-STEP Tutorials on how to make things in DX (and the plan WAS to make more). And I'm being put in some ELITE "Super intelligent crowd of programmers " group, that’s pure BS. There is not a person here on this site that has EVER come to me and asked for my help that did not receive it and MORE. I have created code or people, hell I have made entire gadgets for people to SKIN. That’s not the point at all.

The point is that "WE" as a community need to want DX to be a viable program for SD to sell and us to be able to continue to use and create with, but if someone comes in and sees that there are 200 weather widgets, and 180 clocks, they will go, what’s there for me to make, that’s all anyone wants. BUT if they can come in and see dozens of widget ALL with a unique look, style, and control, and function, then they might see an area where they can fit in, and expand the gallery. NEVER do I want to put people off from skinning, or DX, never.

I love the idea of widgets that match WB skins, and I think there should be more "THEMES" that have all of this together. Maybe we can start putting them together in the DX Themes? And not as separate items in the Widgets gallery.

Ok, I’m done.. I’m tired, I feel like I need to go join Martin/Tiggs and just let the "skinner" take over. I have worked so hard at trying to get people to learn DX, but I guess that just makes me some ELITE ass. Thanks.

There's a big a difference between what the average user wants or more necessarily accepts. Who is an average user? If the average user new how simple it actually is to get things done quicker using batch files or scripting WSH then I think desktopX would perhaps really explode.

My arguments aren't to foster any type of elitism, heck I know how long it takes just to work on the graphics. If you look at my last release at deviantart it took me at least ten hours (conservative) to get the stupid buttons right...even then I'm still not satisfied with them.

The point(s) I've tried to make is that there are a lot of tasks most of us are using separate bloated apps to accomplish. On Friday I found three apps (Hotcorners, MoveIt, Morning Coffee) that I know could easily be scripted in DesktopX. A couple of other apps from my computer include FolderCreater & FileSieve.

I'm going to pick on Morning Coffee because it is so absurd it blew my mind. It's a 323KB .net app that launches programs on start up. I was about to go into a big diatribe about how stupid this is but, have decided to write a widget for this one. All I can say is this can be done in a vbscript in under a kb actually 823 bytes for me. What the widget will do is write the script file for you and give you the option to place it into your start up folder.

Coming from an operations management background I can assure you these Category/Subcategory arguments exist in both product/service sectors.

Asides from the definite need for a Gadgets Category maybe the only real way to promote the additional powers of DesktopX in regards to WSH and activeX/com objects is to write our own articles. Something like "Then Things You Can Accomplish With DesktopX, That You Didn't Know".

Let's not split into factions fighting over differing views when perhaps the end goal is the same for all?

David, I was writing my last resonse so, I missed your post. I can't speak for all but, I can say that you and Vad_M are the reasons that I've started uploading and "will" upload more non-conventional objects.

Your tutorials have been a big help in that they opened up my eyes to further potential within the development environment. Actually, it's probably the main reason I decided to buy DesktopX Pro. Yes, I'm a paying customer and I suspect most developers have the pro version; so, that was a crappy pot shot.

Just remember one user's perspective is just that. In order to attract more users and hopefully potential customers for both DesktopX and especially Gadgets, the community needs a diverse number of developers & skinners not just skinners.

An excellent idea ...and along the same vein...it does not appear that a separate gallery will be approved in the near future....

but...start with articles about DX...then when you have uploaded a new DX item....write about it...post in the forums & Articles... etc... Then it doesn't matter if its lost on page 15....people will go looking for it and learning about...the specific Gadget ect. from your articles..this will help create the interest. From this you could consolidate a forum post that is used to help people with coding ect...the forums having so many lurkers as well...many you will not see or hear from will be learning as well Then once established...tempt people with articles about upcoming gadgets ect....then people will start coming to you with new ideas

And Vad...your english is quite good..I never have a problem understanding you..and because people can ask questions they can clarify anything they don't understand..So please do not let the language barrier prevent you from writing about what you know.

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