Is art worthless on the Internet?
People will pay for some crazy things but cry foul over paying for artwork
Tuesday, February 20, 2007 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize News
Today Stardock Design released its first "Master" Dream to the Dream (animated wallpaper) gallery. It's the one Microsoft showed off at some of its events. As some know, Microsoft worked with Stardock to make some of the animated wallpapers for use with Windows DreamScene. Windows DreamScene (the software) is a feature for Windows Vista Ultimate users. Most of the content we created for Microsoft hasn't been released yet (it will be available from Microsoft). In the process of creating the animated wallpapers for Microsoft, we made a bunch of extra ones for WinCustomize.com which had nothing to do with our work with Microsoft.
So far, Stardock Design has released 6 free .Dreams and 1 premium .Dream. On top of that, Stardock has released DeskScapes as freeware and DreamMaker as freeware. And of course, we host the Dreams here on WiniCustomize which, on their own, used over 2 TERRABYTES of bandwidth. So from our vantage point, Stardock's been "the good guy". Providing lots of free stuff, lots of free software and providing a free site to get it on.
But Stardock's also a business. The costs of producing all this has to be made up somewhere or else we wouldn't be able to keep doing it. But some people seem to be very vocal in their outrage that artists won't work for free. They'll happily pay Microsoft $400 for Windows Vista Ultimate but cry bloody murder about paying third party artists $4.95 for content. My Xbox 360 cost quite a bit too but amazingly, the games aren't free. Those "greedy" game companies!
Here's some of the comments on Blissful Sunset:
"It's absolutely ridiculous that they're charging for this-- it's just wrong. But for people who own Vista Ultimate, just wait, I guarantee you that this will come w/ the final Dreamscene when it's released. "
According to this user, it's morally wrong for artists to be paid for their work. He's quite incorrect about Blissful Sunset coming with the final.
Another user wrote this:
"The implication (with MS showing it at official events) is that this development is work that was part of your contract with MS and therefore has already been subsidized and is in fact being paid for by all of us by our shelling out extra bucks for Ultimate edition."
This falls under the "no good deed goes unpunished" category. Microsoft was looking for high quality content to show off during their demos but didn't want to give away some of the stuff that will be coming in the final release so they asked us if they could show the extra content we made. We agreed to let them. After all, it's pretty cool to see your work up on stage. But this person (and others) have tried to argue that we should simply give away all the animated wallpaper for free that we've made because we made the ones that come with it. How does that make sense?
Over at Valve's Steam website, a user posted "Stardock sux" and writes:
"This is just unbelievable. Stardock is now charging us for what is supposed to be a FREE Vista Ultimate Extra"
This line of thinking is equivalent to saying that someone who bought say Half-Life 2 via Steam is somehow entitled to HL2: Episode 0 and HL2: Episode 1 and so forth. After all, they paid for Half-Life, why should they have to pay for additional content? In fact, that's been one of the trends in the "outrage" group. Sure, there's 18 dreams that are free. But they shouldn't have to pay for anything because they bought Windows Vista Ultimate. I just totally can't grasp that mindset. In what universe does someone buying a version of Windows entitle them to free software and content created by third parties? Heck, my cell phone tries to get me to pay money for additional ring tones!
So here's what's going to happen -- one of these 2 things are going to occur:
Possibility #1: Users decide animated wallpaper is worthless. In that case, Stardock Design won't be creating any more for consumers. Remember, Stardock Design currently has a 6 to 1 ratio in free to premium content. At that point, consumers would just have to hope that individual artists --who understand that there's no chance they'll ever be able to even make some extra side income from their efforts-- will take the time to create spectacular animated wallpapers that loop perfectly and are encoded in high quality at high-definition. Maybe that would happen but I wouldn't count on it.
In addition, since the bandwidth bill would still exist, users would have to buy WinCustomize subscriptions to download after awhile. So the "free beer" crowd would have to find their content elsewhere. But don't count on these being available on most sites. At 50+ megabytes a pop, it's a lot of bandwidth. Someone has to pay for it.
And of course, that would mean the software would have to start charging for extra features. Want to pay 3D dynamic content? The user would have to get the "Pro" version. The point being, the costs of producing, supporting, and developing this stuff has to come from somewhere. Personally, I think a system which nearly everything is free but a handful of premium content isn't free is a pretty good arrangement for everyone.
Possibility #2: Enough users decide that there's value to animated wallpaper. If something comes along that is of exceptional quality happens to ask for a few bucks, then it's worth buying. In that event, what would happen is that it would attract more and more talented people who would submit lots of free ones in the hope of eventually being able to occasionally release premium ones to help recoup their time and costs. It's worth mentioning one more time - Stardock Design's free to non-free ratio so far is 6 to 1. If other studios and independent artists of great skill start to do the same, that sounds like a win-win.
So far, the results have been good. In the first 4 hours of "Blissful Sunset" we sold over 200 copies of it. Whether that trend continues remains to be seen. There's always a big bump at the beginning. The typical WindowBlinds Master skin has an initial bump and then eventually trends to around 5 per day after awhile. But even 5 per day, put over time, is worth it. The author's share of that ends up being around $3,500 per year per skin (not counting the initial bump) -- enough to buy a new computer. But skins are different because it's an established thing. Animated wallpapers are brand-new. How things progress with animated wallpaper remains to be seen.
Reply #62 Wednesday, February 21, 2007 12:48 PM
Are these bitchy people aware that they are not usable without the Stardock app? Maybe it's more a matter of education.
On the other hand, I think it may have been a bit premature on Stardock's part to release a Master dream before MS has fully released Dream Scene. There would still be whining, but I think it would have been less if the full product had been out for awhile.
Reply #63 Wednesday, February 21, 2007 1:48 PM
Keep up the good work! Hopefully CPU usgae can be looked at by the driver companies or Microsoft since they made the claims up front.
Reply #64 Wednesday, February 21, 2007 3:10 PM
The same goes for animated walls. However, I personally don't care for them ... don't like stuff moving on my desktop when I'm trying to get stuff done.
Folks who believe artists should starve can just go somewhere else.
Reply #65 Wednesday, February 21, 2007 3:35 PM
You guys just keep doing as you're doing. You provide tons of free content (not to mention high-quality software that is either free or quite affordable). WinCustomize itself is a philanthropic endeavor, with Stardock footing much of the bill! Where would everyone be if WinCustomize no longer existed?
Personally, I'm quickly growing tired of all the people who complain about why this or that isn't free. It's as if they feel some sort of entitlement to it, which obviously isn't the case. This same mentality is used to defend, or at least rationalize, the piracy of software -- and in all likelihood, most of the complaints and derogatory comments against you are coming from pirates, anyway.
Everyone should make a return on his investment, somehow. Whether that be by increased goodwill derived from releasing free content, or modest monetary gain. Look, if it takes Stardock Design 500 man-hours to make an animated wallpaper, or an average bloke 1000 man-hours, only they can decide what kind of recompense is justified and acceptable to them. Who is everyone else to judge?
Best of luck to you guys for all your "post-Vista" plans. I hope to see some great stuff this year!
~Alessandro.
Reply #66 Wednesday, February 21, 2007 3:45 PM
2.) stardock (brad) acknowledge that their initial releases were 'lacking', not their best stuff and were holding onto the better stuff for later
stardock made no mention in either case that it would be a premium release and cost money. you at the very least gave them no reason to assume otherwise, and honestly I don't care how you try to angle it, I think you intentionally mislead people to raise anticipation/excitment (sales?). i've been a customer for years, and defended stardock for the same time on neowin against people against any form of charging for software/themes (to illustrate im not against charging for themes), this is different, and honestly I expected better out of you guys.
Reply #67 Wednesday, February 21, 2007 4:17 PM
Real good works here!
And for those who wouldn't pay for nothing i just say that:
It's not an obligation to support authors or stardock but i think really it's important to support good work if you want more.
Take an instant and see the work here and the time take to make it!
You want good work but you wouldn't pay for it i think it's idiotic.
If you make a good work for your boss and if at the end of the month you have nothing you think that is really bad not? it's the same here and for all master skins
If you are just customers and not creator you can't know all the work need to make a very good things like this one. And for informations all staff put like master skins was make by masters and it's their more better work. Ok that's for the work!
Now this site: since more years this site share free contents make by real good skinners the site is free (just you can subscribe for more contents and advantages and to support this site)
skins are free
and very much softwares are free.
If you want to continue to get more free skins or themes or wallpapers think to that
a site with his developers a agency with this free and not free software exist by money not by the grace of god. Here it's the real world not the "bisousnours"'s world (sorry it's a french series for little kids in years 80 more idiotic than teletubbies).
i repeat it's not an obligation to support but if you want to continue to get free staff in future this site must be continued to exist and it's for that masters skins was created not make more money(stardock have got games and software for that).
Ok first you not agree with this ok your better answer to that is not make bad comment or post but don't buy this skins (but no warez no crack just don't buy)
second you agree with this but you have not money ok said that you like them or not
3th you agree with this and you buy them good.
for information
i'm a simple cashier and a little french skinner (now you know why my english is bad)
AND i'm not in stardock team.
That's just what i think.
regards
Reply #68 Wednesday, February 21, 2007 4:21 PM
I don't know the story behind this dream either.
$5 isn't really too much, but I'm not so much of a computer nerd to where I'd pay $5 to pretty up something that's going to be sitting in the background ATLEAST 85% of the time.
I don't get on my PC to watch a/the background/wallpaper. I get on to work, for school or just to play a game.
And from what I've read, to me, it does seem like a pretty rotten thing to do.
If I was shown a TV or DVD player that was very nice, had everything I needed, Then was shown a REALLY cool screensaver that the TV/DVD player COULD also play.
You can bet you're sweet behind I would be SUPER pissed if I bought that TV thinking I was also getting that cool SS with it just to find out it's an extra that I'd have to pay for.
You can also bet I wouldn't be getting that Cool SS, even if it was just acouple bucks, JUST for the principle of the matter.
But, I do believe artists need to be paid. Just not for this Dream.
But to each his own.
This was just a dirty trick. Because I bet all of my nothing that they had this planned from the beginning. Show them this Cool new Program that Vista can run, make everyone believe it's part of Dreamscene and then charge them.
It would have been different if in the Previews it was stated this was an Extra Add-on that needed to be paid for.
But like I said I don't really know the whole story of this being shown as demonstration.
Reply #69 Wednesday, February 21, 2007 4:40 PM
From the first public unveiling of dream.wincustomize.com there was an area reserved for "Premium Dreams".
How can you possibly argue that Stardock misled people? Explain why you think Stardock is obligated to give away an unlimited amount of free animated wallpapers. What is the justification?
FB posted this yesterday:
Top Premium Dreams. Which part of that was confusing?
Reply #70 Wednesday, February 21, 2007 4:46 PM
Reply #71 Wednesday, February 21, 2007 5:09 PM
Apparently Dream files aren't the smallest of the bunch. There will be thousands of them within a year hoggiing bandwidth.
A good percentage of the people complaining are probably just discovering Wincustomize because of Dreamscene.
For crying out frikkin loud, let Stardock get back some of that bandwidth. The Stardock extensions are free. There will be a crapload of available free content. Alot will probably blow you away. Some will be for sale.
Nothing against anyone out there but my favorite Windowblinds skins are free. Premium doesn't mean the best. It means you can count on it. You can't count on free content.
Within a month you'll probably be tired of it and this will all mean nothing except more BS for Stardock has/had to deal with instead of improving on what they have done already... succesfully.
Anyone can make there own personal theme. It will cost them some time. Chances are they are not only cheap but lazy and unwilling to put down Halo for a few hours and make their own.
Reply #72 Wednesday, February 21, 2007 5:30 PM
The good news for Stardock is that these people obviously aren't going to spend money anyway so should they leave then that's just one less bandwidth leech.
Reply #73 Wednesday, February 21, 2007 6:00 PM
The good news for Stardock is that these people obviously aren't going to spend money anyway so should they leave then that's just one less bandwidth leech.
I agree full-heartedly!
Reply #74 Wednesday, February 21, 2007 6:11 PM
Same story/sh#t different day.
The same people who sit in front of their $600-$5000 computer with hundreds or thousands more in games and other programs and can shell out damn near $500 just for the OS want to gripe about 1....one.....ONE DAMN "skin" that costs less than $5.
The ones that really burn my ass are the ones that claim they can't afford it.....skip breakfast tomorrow, you'll have change.
If your so upset with Stardock DON'T buy it. Most of these people will never be Stardock customers anyway and will be the first to download the cracks off P2P.
I can't imagine why anyone would think they should get everything for free. I bet they're more than happy to put in a 40 hour a week for free - NOT. I'm sure it was a failing in their upbringing. They should be sterilized before they have a chance to procreate.

Reply #75 Wednesday, February 21, 2007 6:19 PM
Amen brother!
Is this whining or are the arguments really new...NO! It seems like every time something new comes out then someone is alway going to complain.
It's no different then people who try to compare open-source applications to privately developed applications. Don't get me wrong I use a number of open-source apps but, the features and abilities aren't and will never be anywhere equivalent.
I'm sick of this sense of entitlement that seems to be rampant in society today.
Reply #76 Wednesday, February 21, 2007 6:23 PM
just what i think thanks!
oh that's mad bad Lantec it's not kind!
Reply #77 Wednesday, February 21, 2007 6:25 PM
Some of us actually can't.
I have no cable, no long distance telephone and eat one meal a day just to survive; so, don't generalize here as some people are actually telling the truth when they say that. If I could afford cable, I'd choose Wincustomize & Object Desktop subscriptions instead.
Reply #78 Wednesday, February 21, 2007 6:31 PM
I cannot beleive people are complaining about paying $5 for an exquisite piece of art. Seriously. What's more important to you people? You can't even get a good lunch for $5 anymore, and yet you bitch about this stuff?!This whole dreamscene thing and the content that's up on wincustomize is one of the primary factors in my desire to get Vista Ultimate (what can I say, I like my eye-candy!)
As soon as I get Ultimate I can assure you that I at least will be buying blissful sunset. If Stardock Design continues to produce stuff of such high calibur I don't see any reason I won't be making more purchases either.
Reply #79 Wednesday, February 21, 2007 6:43 PM
yeah man i agree we said the truth and if anyone want the sold of my bank account at this time=
-900€ ok i can't buy this staff and in more i haven't vista at this time for the same reason my first interest that my daughter can find eat on the table. I take time to make free staff to share it here for free ok! and for those who believe that skinners here are some money. every month i have 1500€ to live with my wife and my daughter. when i listen people who don't/can't make any staff complain on a staff at 5 dollars i'm seriously
Like i have said at the top if you wouldn't pay for it good but don't complain on the price all staff (and good in more) can't be free.
Reply #80 Wednesday, February 21, 2007 6:53 PM
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Reply #61 Wednesday, February 21, 2007 12:35 PM
Yes, I can see how arguing that art has value might come across as unprofessional.
Seriously though, your argument boils down that this site exists solely to "Share" but what you really seem to mean is other people sharing.
For just one second, forget that the master skin was made by Stardock Design. Pretend it came from Master artist XYZ. Does that change anything? The whole point of the Master skin concept is so that the proven best artists have an incentive to put in the extra time to create something really special.
The people who can't or don't want to pay don't have to. But many people want this kind of content and they're willing to pay for it. But the anti-crowd aren't just voicing that they wouldn't buy it, they are voicing that it shouldn't exist at all. If they had their way, they'd deny those of us who want this stuff the very choice to get this stuff.
If I like computer games and for years the only options were freeware games that have a certain charm but then someone comes by and creates a really outstanding game but asks for money, I don't mind paying for it. I think we are better off with a greater variety.
If someone doesn't want to buy something, that's their perogative. But they're not stopping there, they are attempting to stifle the creation of premium content overall. Someoe selling something doesn't hurt you or anyone else.