Bryce versus Vue
Friday, September 8, 2006 by _02 | Discussion: Customization Software
I have been using Bryce for a couple of years now. At the time I got it, it was what I could afford. I worked with it many hours a day to learn how to do things and make things look as good as they could with it. Sometimes it took days to get the effect I wanted and sometimes I was unable to at all. Needless to say, it is the 3D prog I learned on.
Lately I have been reading alot of ugly things about Bryce. To be honest it pissed me off. Not everyone can afford the more expensive programs like Vue, Maya and others. I thought how horrible it was to judge something poorly because it was cheaper than the rest.
Then I came across a good deal on Vue so I took it. I started playing around with it and found that it is very much a superior program. With just a couple clicks of the mouse I could achieve things it took days to achieve in Bryce, if I was able to at all. So, I began to understand (to a point) why all the ugly comments about Bryce.
Then it struck me about the unfairness of what that attitude led to. People who had created something very nice with Bryce being rejected or insulted with a low rating from the mods because it was done in Bryce or what they thought was done in Bryce and not one of the more expensive ones.
Now that I have both programs and have been able to create with them both, I need to make a statement about how unfair the judging of work is around here.
Does it not dawn on the moderators that any work created in Bryce that looks half way decent is a far greater achievement than a good or great looking piece created in Vue or other higher quality program? After all, the work that went into creating the decent wall with Bryce (which leaves most of the work up to the artist), in my humble opinion takes much more patience and talent than it does to create something great with a program that does almost everything for the artist with a click of the mouse.
Maybe next time a piece done in Bryce comes along, you will look at it from a point of view of talent and effort and not what is more expensive or styled to suit your eyes. Should peoples work be judge so harshly because it is not made on a more desirable program? I think not.
And before the attack begins, I would like to say one more thing. There are literally hundreds if not thousands of works on this site with thousands of downloads that were created in Bryce. Lets not let the cost of the program or style of work determine the ratings, but the talent.
Lately I have been reading alot of ugly things about Bryce. To be honest it pissed me off. Not everyone can afford the more expensive programs like Vue, Maya and others. I thought how horrible it was to judge something poorly because it was cheaper than the rest.
Then I came across a good deal on Vue so I took it. I started playing around with it and found that it is very much a superior program. With just a couple clicks of the mouse I could achieve things it took days to achieve in Bryce, if I was able to at all. So, I began to understand (to a point) why all the ugly comments about Bryce.
Then it struck me about the unfairness of what that attitude led to. People who had created something very nice with Bryce being rejected or insulted with a low rating from the mods because it was done in Bryce or what they thought was done in Bryce and not one of the more expensive ones.
Now that I have both programs and have been able to create with them both, I need to make a statement about how unfair the judging of work is around here.
Does it not dawn on the moderators that any work created in Bryce that looks half way decent is a far greater achievement than a good or great looking piece created in Vue or other higher quality program? After all, the work that went into creating the decent wall with Bryce (which leaves most of the work up to the artist), in my humble opinion takes much more patience and talent than it does to create something great with a program that does almost everything for the artist with a click of the mouse.
Maybe next time a piece done in Bryce comes along, you will look at it from a point of view of talent and effort and not what is more expensive or styled to suit your eyes. Should peoples work be judge so harshly because it is not made on a more desirable program? I think not.
And before the attack begins, I would like to say one more thing. There are literally hundreds if not thousands of works on this site with thousands of downloads that were created in Bryce. Lets not let the cost of the program or style of work determine the ratings, but the talent.
TYCUS
Reply #2 Saturday, September 9, 2006 1:25 AM
Reply #2 Saturday, September 9, 2006 1:25 AM
talking about 3d renders.., i see alot of logons from Boss123(is that his correct nick..?), he say that he use Bryce to creat some of his work (or at least i have heard something like that..), the work he has done with this software is just amazing, and other thing that realy catch me is the short time he spend in every submission at devart (at least one logon every one or two days).
Now, i have only use 3d Studio Max v.7, it's kindda tricky to use and when you try to make a abstract figure (like a crystals with strange forms), it takes almost two or three hours to get it the way you want (this is with me..).
I like 3ds max, is a good software and i have try some others like Maya (didn't how to use it at all...
)....
Now, i have only use 3d Studio Max v.7, it's kindda tricky to use and when you try to make a abstract figure (like a crystals with strange forms), it takes almost two or three hours to get it the way you want (this is with me..).
I like 3ds max, is a good software and i have try some others like Maya (didn't how to use it at all...
)....
Jafo
Reply #3 Saturday, September 9, 2006 2:46 AM
Reply #3 Saturday, September 9, 2006 2:46 AM
All Bryce....and not a dolphin or palm tree in sight....
[MobiusCo]
KiloKrash
Reply #4 Saturday, September 9, 2006 2:54 AM
Is this a glimpse of the incomparable intelect of the Jafo?
Reply #4 Saturday, September 9, 2006 2:54 AM
| All Bryce....and not a dolphin or palm tree in sight.... [MobiusCo] |
Is this a glimpse of the incomparable intelect of the Jafo?
_02
Reply #5 Saturday, September 9, 2006 12:58 PM
Hi Weatherbound. It is up to you. Vue seems much easier for me to use. Alot less hassle with the lighting and sun affects. I just like the proccess better in it too. It is a far better program, but more expensive too. They do have a Vue Easel that is less than $100 which is perfect for a beginner. All in all, I wish I had been able to start out with Vue, but greatful to have been able to start somewhere! Good luck. It is really a personal decision.
Nice Example Jafo! That's what I'm talking about!
Reply #5 Saturday, September 9, 2006 12:58 PM
| clwoods, a couple of weeks ago I was looking at vue in the store. |
Hi Weatherbound. It is up to you. Vue seems much easier for me to use. Alot less hassle with the lighting and sun affects. I just like the proccess better in it too. It is a far better program, but more expensive too. They do have a Vue Easel that is less than $100 which is perfect for a beginner. All in all, I wish I had been able to start out with Vue, but greatful to have been able to start somewhere! Good luck. It is really a personal decision.
Nice Example Jafo! That's what I'm talking about!
Fairyy~
Reply #6 Saturday, September 9, 2006 1:41 PM
Another example are the 2 walls that phoon made this week ( both were 3-D Chessboards, available in wall section )
I was amazed that that he made them in Bryce. I believe this is Cindi's point - everyone constantly says Bryce has no skill level involved. But I dont think thats true.
The abstract walls in Bryce are sometimes created by 'accident' But it all takes some type of skill.
Reply #6 Saturday, September 9, 2006 1:41 PM
| Nice Example Jafo! That's what I'm talking about! |
Another example are the 2 walls that phoon made this week ( both were 3-D Chessboards, available in wall section )
I was amazed that that he made them in Bryce. I believe this is Cindi's point - everyone constantly says Bryce has no skill level involved. But I dont think thats true.
The abstract walls in Bryce are sometimes created by 'accident' But it all takes some type of skill.
Phoon
Reply #7 Saturday, September 9, 2006 2:13 PM
Thank you for the nice comment Fairyy~. I appreciate it.
You are quite right in that statement.
Abstracts, you know, the shiny balls and taurus shapes that you ZOOM in on that create nifty light effects.. those are a dime-a-dozen and quite easy to do.
There are 2 EXCEPTIONAL artists that I know of that do those with grand finesse and painstaking detail. Those 2 would be Green Armani and Lady Akasha.
Bryce is what you make of it. You can get very detailed if you try.
I was alot better with Bryce 2 years ago but just got tired of how long it took to render a detailed image. Hence, I have forgotten quite a bit.
Link">Link
Lady Akasha
-----
Link
Reply #7 Saturday, September 9, 2006 2:13 PM
| everyone constantly says Bryce has no skill level involved. But I dont think thats true. |
Thank you for the nice comment Fairyy~. I appreciate it.
You are quite right in that statement.
Abstracts, you know, the shiny balls and taurus shapes that you ZOOM in on that create nifty light effects.. those are a dime-a-dozen and quite easy to do.
There are 2 EXCEPTIONAL artists that I know of that do those with grand finesse and painstaking detail. Those 2 would be Green Armani and Lady Akasha.
Bryce is what you make of it. You can get very detailed if you try.
I was alot better with Bryce 2 years ago but just got tired of how long it took to render a detailed image. Hence, I have forgotten quite a bit.
Link">Link
Lady Akasha
-----
Link
Fairyy~
Reply #8 Sunday, September 10, 2006 1:54 AM
You know i commented on your walls at the time, I really liked both of them - i honestly had no clue they were made with Bryce. I downloaded Bryce but have yet to figure out how to use it. I rely too much on buzzh58 to teach me all these programs and he's too busy working these days so I'll just have to wait till he's back in creative mode. A lot of these programs are difficult to comprehend at first , but once you figure out what everything does or where it is - then your halfway there. Having some artistic talent helps.
I used to belong to at least 10 different graphics groups on aol. So I have folders full of dancing dolphins and pasted on tweety birds in a garden.
Reply #8 Sunday, September 10, 2006 1:54 AM
| Thank you for the nice comment Fairyy~. I appreciate it. |
You know i commented on your walls at the time, I really liked both of them - i honestly had no clue they were made with Bryce. I downloaded Bryce but have yet to figure out how to use it. I rely too much on buzzh58 to teach me all these programs and he's too busy working these days so I'll just have to wait till he's back in creative mode. A lot of these programs are difficult to comprehend at first , but once you figure out what everything does or where it is - then your halfway there. Having some artistic talent helps.
I used to belong to at least 10 different graphics groups on aol. So I have folders full of dancing dolphins and pasted on tweety birds in a garden.
Jafo
Reply #9 Sunday, September 10, 2006 2:08 AM
Reply #9 Sunday, September 10, 2006 2:08 AM
| everyone constantly says Bryce has no skill level involved |
The problem is there is REAL SKILL required to do anything at all well with Bryce [as with any other proggy].
However...Bryce is one of those animals which if one simply 'fiddles' with buttons it will generate a result for you which has a 'gee-whiz' factor....for the newbie pushing said buttons....BUT NO-ONE ELSE who may have been around graphics for more than 15 minutes.
Whilst the likes of MobiusCo show skill with the proggy...that 'thing' of mine [Bryceworld] is a great example of what not to do....
Fairyy~
Reply #10 Sunday, September 10, 2006 2:30 AM
I'll have you know I added a ripple affect to your Bryceworld Wall - sad part is - im serious , I really did.
But - this is why threads like this are a good thing. If Phoon only knew what my first comment/thought was when I went to comment on his Checkerboard 3-D walls he'd laugh. Because the wall section had had quite a bit of those push button abstract things lately - my comment started out as " this is a nice change from all the Bryce walls i've seen lately"
I decided to remove the comment because I didnt want to insult/discourage someone that was just learning. You have no idea how glad I was I removed that after he wrote he created those with Bryce.
If your not familar with these programs you tend to just remember all the negative comments associated with them. Same goes with a lot of PSP stuff - you see same images used in 500 different settings.
Thats where the ' talent ' part comes in - to create by not using the standard stock tubes. But i dont think im going to be struck by a Norman Rockwell gene anytime soon.
Reply #10 Sunday, September 10, 2006 2:30 AM
| Whilst the likes of MobiusCo show skill with the proggy...that 'thing' of mine [Bryceworld] is a great example of what not to do... |
I'll have you know I added a ripple affect to your Bryceworld Wall - sad part is - im serious , I really did.
But - this is why threads like this are a good thing. If Phoon only knew what my first comment/thought was when I went to comment on his Checkerboard 3-D walls he'd laugh. Because the wall section had had quite a bit of those push button abstract things lately - my comment started out as " this is a nice change from all the Bryce walls i've seen lately"
I decided to remove the comment because I didnt want to insult/discourage someone that was just learning. You have no idea how glad I was I removed that after he wrote he created those with Bryce.
If your not familar with these programs you tend to just remember all the negative comments associated with them. Same goes with a lot of PSP stuff - you see same images used in 500 different settings.
Thats where the ' talent ' part comes in - to create by not using the standard stock tubes. But i dont think im going to be struck by a Norman Rockwell gene anytime soon.
Erk.
Reply #11 Sunday, September 10, 2006 3:17 AM
Reply #11 Sunday, September 10, 2006 3:17 AM
W|E throws a "Norman Rockwell" gene at Fairyy~
...Now get to work!
...Now get to work!
Fairyy~
Reply #12 Sunday, September 10, 2006 4:07 AM
Unfortunately you hit me in the foot with that .... Toe Art ?
Reply #12 Sunday, September 10, 2006 4:07 AM
| W|E throws a "Norman Rockwell" gene at Fairyy~ ...Now get to work! |
Unfortunately you hit me in the foot with that .... Toe Art ?
kenwas
Reply #13 Sunday, September 10, 2006 8:02 AM
Reply #13 Sunday, September 10, 2006 8:02 AM
Having been intimately involved in the development of Vue over the last couple of years, I am certainly a devotee of this product over Bryce. However, Bryce was my intro to 3D art and I am very familiar with this product as well. I remember at that point that Bryce was the leader in entry level 3d, way ahead of Vue. Unfortunately, Bryce was not developed by its owners in conjunction with the changes in the PC market as memory and CPU power and open GL technology dramatically grew in availability and affordability. The current owners, DAZ, have done nothing with the product other than opening the program up to Poser and or DAZ product capability with minor render time improvements. It remains to be seen if there is a viable future for Bryce. Having given the 5 version away for free, it will be interesting to see what price point a new version could command. (I don't count 5.5 as a new version)
Meanwhile Vue has made quantum leaps in program capabilities and integration into the high end programs such as Maya, etc. vis-a-vis its xStream product line. It has equally been excepted by the leading digital production houses. It was used for some of the scenery elements in Pirates of the Caribbean for example. It has expanded the product line to include entry level versions as well as "professional" level versions.
Having said that, there are many examples of superior renders done by great talents in both programs. However, as the program capabilities increase, so does the expectation level of what creates superior renders. It is a waste of time to spend hours placing individual tree objects as one must with Bryce for example when one can use ecosystem technology to control a complete forest down to the single object level.
I personally wish that more development had been done with Bryce as the competition would have been better for the consumer in the long run.
Meanwhile Vue has made quantum leaps in program capabilities and integration into the high end programs such as Maya, etc. vis-a-vis its xStream product line. It has equally been excepted by the leading digital production houses. It was used for some of the scenery elements in Pirates of the Caribbean for example. It has expanded the product line to include entry level versions as well as "professional" level versions.
Having said that, there are many examples of superior renders done by great talents in both programs. However, as the program capabilities increase, so does the expectation level of what creates superior renders. It is a waste of time to spend hours placing individual tree objects as one must with Bryce for example when one can use ecosystem technology to control a complete forest down to the single object level.
I personally wish that more development had been done with Bryce as the competition would have been better for the consumer in the long run.
WeatherBound
Reply #14 Sunday, September 10, 2006 10:34 AM
Reply #14 Sunday, September 10, 2006 10:34 AM
Dear Santa,
All I want is Vue for Christmas.
Now I have got to get Vue. Thanks clwoods and Kenwas.
Your sell pitch is good
Like I said Bryce users, Keep up the good work.
All I want is Vue for Christmas.
Now I have got to get Vue. Thanks clwoods and Kenwas.
Your sell pitch is good Like I said Bryce users, Keep up the good work.
_02
Reply #15 Tuesday, September 12, 2006 9:19 AM
Reply #15 Tuesday, September 12, 2006 9:19 AM
I have talked to someone that was a little upset over my thread here. I am sorry I did not shoot from my hip in the first place, as I usually do when saying or writing things. It was not my intention to say that those who use Vue or other more expensive program are not talented. In fact Kenwas, one of the most talented wallpaper artists here, uses Vue.
My intent was to point out to the new moderators that they are judging Bryce work unfairly.
To continually bad mouth a product because it is less expensive and harder to create with is damaging to those who can't afford better.
Now, 'nuff said.
My intent was to point out to the new moderators that they are judging Bryce work unfairly.
To continually bad mouth a product because it is less expensive and harder to create with is damaging to those who can't afford better.
Now, 'nuff said.
Fairyy~
Reply #16 Wednesday, September 13, 2006 9:09 AM
I knew from the first post exactly what you meant. Some spend 5 days to 2 weeks making something the ' hard " way while some programs allow the luxery of speed and can be done in 10% of the time. But- as Jafo once told me " time spent doesnt always equate a ' good ' piece of art. But , when a wall gets 1 star coming from the mod queue it really doesnt stand much of a chance to get much further.
The moderators rate using the old system 1 through 10 ......but remember , on our side 1 star means " I hate it " 2 stars " I don't like it " So Its hard to get past that stigma of a wall already being pronounced " dead " before it got out of the gate.
Again - this post was full of opinion and info - who ever was offended by it - shouldnt have been at all.
Reply #16 Wednesday, September 13, 2006 9:09 AM
| To continually bad mouth a product because it is less expensive and harder to create with is damaging to those who can't afford better. Now, 'nuff said. |
I knew from the first post exactly what you meant. Some spend 5 days to 2 weeks making something the ' hard " way while some programs allow the luxery of speed and can be done in 10% of the time. But- as Jafo once told me " time spent doesnt always equate a ' good ' piece of art. But , when a wall gets 1 star coming from the mod queue it really doesnt stand much of a chance to get much further.
The moderators rate using the old system 1 through 10 ......but remember , on our side 1 star means " I hate it " 2 stars " I don't like it " So Its hard to get past that stigma of a wall already being pronounced " dead " before it got out of the gate.
Again - this post was full of opinion and info - who ever was offended by it - shouldnt have been at all.
Cyberium
Reply #17 Tuesday, September 19, 2006 4:46 AM
Reply #17 Tuesday, September 19, 2006 4:46 AM
O Ok yeah Bryce is cheaper.. but a really powerful and FREE 3D Creation software is Blender! See Blender.Org. Though a but odd to look at at first its really easy and simple to use but at the same time really powerful.. Just thought I'd plug it
I'd started out with Bryce 4 first thought as I got it free with a Magazine
and I did manage to make a few images with that - Giving birth to "FatBat".. But then I forgot about that and later on found out about Blender.. being free was the big incentive to try it, Blender is constantly being re-coded and improved - and there is even a fully open source movie created with it. Free to watch on YouTube or anywhere just Google "Elephants Dream".
I'd started out with Bryce 4 first thought as I got it free with a Magazine
and I did manage to make a few images with that - Giving birth to "FatBat".. But then I forgot about that and later on found out about Blender.. being free was the big incentive to try it, Blender is constantly being re-coded and improved - and there is even a fully open source movie created with it. Free to watch on YouTube or anywhere just Google "Elephants Dream". Please login to comment and/or vote for this skin.
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Reply #1 Saturday, September 9, 2006 12:35 AM
So I agree with you. It take a lot of talent to use Bryce so up with the ratings for people who use it.
And now for Vue. You make it sound like it is easy to use. Is it easy to use? Because I would be willing to spend money on it as long as its easy to figure out.