Mac Zealots: Get a grip
Is there anything Apple didn't invent?
Thursday, September 15, 2005 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize News
Over at MicrosoftGadgets.com, Mac zealots are giving new meaning to the term uninformed fanatic. This week, Microsoft announced Microsoft Gadgets. As has been discussed, gadgets are similar to widgets except they do not require the user to download a run-time in order to use them. They're stand-alone entities.
Microsoft's gadgets are designed to be used on Windows Vista (and on XP via Avalon) and can sit on the desktop, be placed on the Windows Side-bar and be put onto the web.
Mac zealots started foaming that Microsoft was ripping off Apple. A pretty impressive display of chutzpah considering Apple ripped off the concept from Konfabulator. Some Mac users tried to argue that no, that's not true, Apple's desktop accessories predate it all. Balderdash. I knew Apple accessories. Apple accessories were a friend of mine. Dashboard is no follow-on to desktop accesories. It's interesting to note that Mac zealots only discovered the wonder of desktop accessories AFTER Dashboard had been announced. In the 5 years DesktopX had existed, not once did a Mac user say "That's a copy of Desktop accessories". Similarly, you'd be hard pressed to go onto the Konfabulator forums and see an early post from someone saying "Isn't this just like desktop accessories?" In short, the desktop accessories comparison was manufactured by zealots to cover the fact that Apple got caught, again, ripping off its ISVs.
So it's rather ironic to hear them argue Microsoft was ripping off Apple. If anyone should be mad, it should be Stardock. After all, DesktopX was the first mini-application enabler that allowed end users to easily create them. The DNA difference between DesktopX's widgets/gadgets, Konfabulator, Dashborad, Kapsules, etc. is relatively small compared to the difference between them and something like desktop accessories (or hypercard or Incan clay tablets for that matter).
But you haven't heard Stardock complain about Microsoft's gadget strategy even though it's identical to Stardock's. People all week have been asking us for our reaction to Microsoft's announcement. Similarly, when Yahoo bought Konfabulator, we were asked for our reaction. How would it affect DesktopX? We didn't really say much. This week, users everywhere discovered the reason we've been so quiet.
I'm not the only one who finds the latest example of historical revisioning by Mac zealots galling. Paul Boyer, who was created DesktopX objects back in 1999 (as in clocks, mp3 players, drive monitors, you get the idea) without knowing programming (he's a graphics designer) is appalled as well. Check out the article below.
And stay tuned to more information on the Stardock/Microsoft gadget evolution. Exciting things are afoot.
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Reply #2 Thursday, September 15, 2005 2:01 PM
Reply #3 Thursday, September 15, 2005 2:25 PM
Reply #4 Thursday, September 15, 2005 2:31 PM
| I always thought after Al Gore invented the internet he had gotten together with Little Richard to invent the stuff that makes your desktop rock and roll. |
Reply #5 Thursday, September 15, 2005 3:17 PM
Reply #6 Thursday, September 15, 2005 4:42 PM
since I use both and like both ( macs and pcs) , I can say I like it when they (ms and apple) take something they see from one another and make it better. it is when they patent it and then make the other pay if they want to use it that I as a consumer end up hating it because I can't have the best features of both in the same box. all hail the spirit of competition and freebasing!
Reply #7 Thursday, September 15, 2005 8:46 PM
| Why do people bother so much who was first? Why not enjoy the fact that it's availible in various forms on various OS's? All the better for the user. A little competition is healthy to boost further development. |
I Agree. All this is pointless.
Reply #8 Thursday, September 15, 2005 11:38 PM
It's sad to see the extremism that either side is willing to resort to in scenarios such as these. Unencouraging to see fellow Apple users behave in the manner witnessed at MicrosoftGadgets. But, then again, there have been some rather scathing statements about Macs and the OS X operating system given under the guile of "articles" here that were UTTERLY foundationless. I'm speaking specifically of Paul Boyer's Mac OS X Tiger review, which itself espoused some of the vile attitude now seen on MicrosoftGadgets.com. Neither situation is fair.
Reply #9 Friday, September 16, 2005 8:30 AM
| I'm speaking specifically of Paul Boyer's Mac OS X Tiger review, which itself espoused some of the vile attitude |
That's a bit objectionable, really......"vile attitude" indeed.
A guy extols his personal tale of woe and it's categorized as 'vile'?
I think it's time to step back and smell the roses....
Reply #10 Friday, September 16, 2005 8:36 AM
| I still find these front-page opinion-pieces (you'd probably call 'em "reporting") amusing |
This is a blog, not "reporting". I know for a fact he's not trying to be a journalist, just expressing his feelings about this situation.
Reply #11 Friday, September 16, 2005 10:51 AM
Reply #13 Friday, September 16, 2005 11:45 PM
If you're free to blog, I'm free to comment. The definition of the word fits his review, and I'm gonna stick to it. Mormegil's provided some exceptional insights, and some real stinkers, too. That article was clearly not his best.
Reply #14 Friday, September 16, 2005 11:49 PM
I can still give my opinion, however, for which I'm grateful.
Reply #15 Saturday, September 17, 2005 7:39 AM
MrBiotech, what I put on the home page of my website is my business.
You speak of vile things, I'll tell you what's vile -- Mac users trying to claim that widgets/gadgets are some how inspired by desktop accessories. These are people who are completely clueless about what widgets and gadgets are all about.
Reply #16 Saturday, September 17, 2005 9:29 AM
Reply #17 Saturday, September 17, 2005 10:46 AM
Skinner mrbiotech ....I think the problem here is one 'side' is trying to rewrite history through indignation.....and the other 'side' is indignant that history is trying to be rewritten.
Those who live through history will know when it's being screwed with....
Reply #18 Saturday, September 17, 2005 10:51 AM
| Oh, I completely agree! Ignorance is ignorance, and I'm not condoning their actions in any form. I'm simply commenting on how both sides are guilty of this behavior. Obviously, you're a businessman, and to have positive articles regarding operating systems beyond the one you support wouldn't promote your products. I can't knock you for that, although I do believe the objectivity has been lost here. The impression did exist in my mind that this was a community site, however, of which I'm apparently mistaken. |
This is a community site. It's just not a Mac zealot community.
You see, here's the basic problem which you seem incapable of grasping:
Mac zealots are trying to rewrite history. They are being dishonest, ignorant, or both. For those of us who have spent 6 years of their lives on this stuff, it's a bit obnoxious for some Mac users to try to act like everything was copied off of them.
When I helped design DesktopX, desktop accessories were the furthest thing from my mind. What inspired me was OpenDoc (which Apple was apart of incidentally).
But it is amusing seeing you claim that this isn't a community site simply because OUR community doesn't support Mac zealotry. Are all Mac oriented sites non-community sites because their owners bad-mouth Windows and "Pee-Cee" users?
Reply #19 Saturday, September 17, 2005 12:57 PM
PS. I know you can set up shares for other drives and such buy editing the prefs files. Though it is a pain.
Reply #20 Saturday, September 17, 2005 1:55 PM
Your final misinterpretation is that I'm saying wincustomize isn't a community because "it doesn't support mac zealotry." I'm saying it doesn't feel as community as previous years because it's primarily yourself doing all the front-page posting and because you make statements like
| MrBiotech, what I put on the home page of my website is my business |
So you see, you've misinterpreted my statements multiple times, from multiple comments, and I think you're ascribing an attack from me that perhaps isn't what you think it is. Jafo urged me to be more objective, which I am attempting to do. I urge you to do the same when you read my statements, please.
Let me state this without ambiguity: there are clearly zealots on both sides. Simple. Sure, we hate it when ignorant mac-users front a revisionist mindset when the evidence is clearly against them. The mac users certainly hate it when ignorant statements are made about their preferred operating system too, which has occurred here at various times. That's it.
For the curious, the principle article that I'm addressing is here: https://www.wincustomize.com/Articles.aspx?AID=74748
The title was clue enough to the author (Mormegil's) intentions, although the comments in response had a decidedly pro-Apple twist.
Mormegil- the comments to your thread address these points multiple times, by multiple authors.
To access files on my mac remotely from one of my PCs, I simply typed in the FTP address of the mac into a typical file-manager window and had complete access. No modification of files was required, although you do have to click the "Activate File-Sharing" checkbox in your configuration panel, and some users will want to specify permissions.
The statements about the widgets not running in multiples and their odd-behaviors have not been repeated by myself and two other friends, so we conclude that either you have a unique problem on your Mac, or that perhaps my (then) version 10.4.1 OS X was a different build than yours. My mac was purchased with the first run of OS X installations included on CD, previous to it being preinstalled.
The installation issues whereby all your iPhoto, etc. were lost might not have happened if the dialog boxes that appear during installation were read. One of them presents the option of a complete clean install versus an install over the existing operating system. This you acknowledge in your article.
These are the principal points of concern that were ranted over in your article, if I'm correct, and most had simple solutions. I still don't know what's wrong with your Dashboard widgets, we've tried to replicate the problems you claim to have experienced without success.
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Reply #1 Thursday, September 15, 2005 1:58 PM