Z-Order, Desktop Level doesn't seem to be working correctly?

Wednesday, August 24, 2005 by Dekztar | Discussion: DesktopX

Ok, if this has been covered before or if I am asking in the wrong place or anything, please point me in the right direction.

I've only been using Object Desktop for maybe 24 hours now, so I'm VERY new.

Ok, basically the idea is that I'm making some objects on my desktop that are transparent until mouseover, then they fade in. (Basically the idea is that instead of having icons, you will actually interact with parts of the wallpaper.)

ANYWAYS, this all works great, except that when I push the windows button + D to minimize all, the icons don't appear when I mouseover. If I bring up a window and then minimize it, then they work properly.

Thanks in advance for any help. So far this stuff seems really cool!
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MountainDragon
Reply #1 Wednesday, August 24, 2005 2:37 AM
From what I can tell from a couple of experiments, you are right, if an object is at Desktop level (or Normal, for that matter), then the windows + D method of show desktop will hide it. There is a function within DesktopX for showing the desktop (Object type - System - Show Desktop), so you might be able to set something up with that, like create a widget and register a hotkey for it. Check the DX docs: Link
for more info.

The other option would be to make the object Always on top, but that depends on how you want to set it up.

Dekztar
Reply #2 Wednesday, August 24, 2005 7:19 AM
Alright, 2 more hours of work and then I will give that a shot when I get home; thanks for the quick reply.

I must say I am disapointed that the software has such an obvious flaw in what IMO is a crucial shortcut. I use Win+D CONSTANTLY, and my whole plan to get rid of start menus and docks and quicklaunch bars would depend on it even more so

Oh well, hopefully the simple workaround you suggested will do the trick, then it's just a matter of retraining my brain to use the new shortcut I make instead of Win+D

MarkMcQ
Reply #3 Wednesday, August 24, 2005 7:39 AM
WINKEY+D minimises everything to desktop. It's not a flaw in DX, it's Windows doing what it's told.
If you use WINKEY+M instead, it will minimise all open windows, and should allow your objects to remain on the desk.

hotrod11
Reply #4 Wednesday, August 24, 2005 8:36 AM
Thanks for the info about the WinKey+M, but I really want a shortcut on my quicklaunch tool bar to minimize all windows. From the newsgroup, I was pointed to https://www.wincustomize.com/ViewSkin.aspx?SID=1&SkinID=2733&LibID=3 which works perfectly when you get the z-order set to always on top, (switch to DXBuilder Mode) but it is with words, I'd like to make this into a pair of icons. Can anybody help me do that?

hotrod11
Reply #5 Wednesday, August 24, 2005 8:38 AM
It's not a flaw in DX, it's Windows doing what it's told.


If it's not a flaw, then what is Desktop Zorder level for anyway?

Bichur
Reply #6 Wednesday, August 24, 2005 9:23 AM
If it's not a flaw, then what is Desktop Zorder level for anyway?


keeps it from floating to the top
you can always set your own hotkeys for show and hide

hotrod11
Reply #7 Wednesday, August 24, 2005 9:55 AM
So what is the difference between normal and desktop zorder.

And can anybody help me with the script thats from Martin's DX2Minimize.

How can I make a simple icon to minimize all windows? I'm not toooo concerned with restoring the windows. But I'd like to make that into an icon instead of text. Also, is there anyway to make this script function into a normal windows shortcut?

Sub Object_OnScriptEnter
Object.Text = "Minimize All"
End Sub


Sub Object_OnStateChange(state)
If state = "Command executed" Then
If Object.Text = "Minimize All" Then
Set oShellApp= CreateObject("Shell.Application")
oShellApp.MinimizeAll
Object.Text = "Restore Windows"
Else
Set oShellApp= CreateObject("Shell.Application")
oShellApp.UndoMinimizeAll
Object.Text = "Minimize All"
End If
Set oShellApp = Nothing
End If
End Sub

MountainDragon
Reply #8 Wednesday, August 24, 2005 11:06 AM
hotrod - Making that into an icon would be easy: Just change the Appearance setting on the States tab of the object properties to Image, and then use whatever image you want.

Here's a link to an object that does the same thing using the DX function: Link

hotrod11
Reply #9 Wednesday, August 24, 2005 12:26 PM
Just change the Appearance setting on the States tab of the object properties to Image, and then use whatever image you want.


I tried that. But when I change it to an image it fails to work.

The Hardest Button is perfect. I changed the image and then I placed it on my taskbar. And ALL IS FABULOUS!

WAIT...
The same problem occurs with the HardestButton and DX2Minimize. When I place it on the taskbar with Z-order Always on Top they both work fine until I hit the startmenu or click on something in my systray. Any ideas? I'm so used to pressing the desktop button in my quicklaunch bar, I just want this one down there too.

rabidrobot
Reply #10 Wednesday, August 24, 2005 12:35 PM
Heya! Thanks MountainDragon for linking my humble object! I tried to provide that link in the newsgroup discussion of this subject, but posted wrong one.

I'd like to take the opportunity to say that _Martin_'s script is far superior to the System Object Type->Show Desktop method I use. The default system command sometimes gets confused as to what it is minimizing, restoring, and resizing. I really should get _Martin_'s OK and combine the two objects (My activation and gfx, his script).

Also, one of AndreasV's many useful docklets is this one:https://www.wincustomize.com/ViewSkin.aspx?SID=1&SkinID=3231&LibID=29&comments=1
Which is for ObjectDock. I had no trouble getting it up and running, contrary to the comments. Works great in breif testing.

I know how to set show / hide DesktopX widget hotkeys in Properties/General Tab. What is easiest way to make hotkeys that will *activate* an object?

hotrod11
Reply #11 Wednesday, August 24, 2005 12:39 PM
Rabidrobot, when I minimize the my windows with your HardestButton, it messes up Excel. All my toolbars disappear and the only way to get them back is to close Excel and reopen. Anyideas how to stop that?

I tried that ObjectDock ShowDesktop and it shows my plain desktop, no widgets, and no IconX icons????

Looking at your Button Rabidrobot, I'm even more confused. Because it appears as your button just calls on the System-ShowDesktop program, just like the button in my quicklaunch bar. So why is it that your button leaves all my widgets and icons in place, but pressing the quicklauch showdesktop makes them disappear?

rabidrobot
Reply #12 Wednesday, August 24, 2005 12:44 PM
Hmm. Hotrod, is your THBtB (The Hardest Button to Button) object trying to stay on top of a dock, widget, or the windows taskbar? If two things both want to be Always On Top in the same screen space, the most recently activated one takes precedence (Generally).

I can't reproduce THBtB failing to stay on top of windows.

Just tried changing appearance of DX2 Minimize All. Didn't work, as you said. Have to look into that later.


rr

hotrod11
Reply #13 Wednesday, August 24, 2005 12:47 PM
I'm trying to place it on my taskbar. I slide over my quicklaunch toolbar area to create a space for it. It works great till I click the startmenu or systray then it's gone.?? I edited my last post just above, I don't know if you say that...we're posting so fast.

The same thing happens when I try to place the DX2 minimizer on the taskbar as well

MountainDragon
Reply #14 Wednesday, August 24, 2005 1:00 PM
It's like RR said, if the taskbar is set to OnTop, then whatever was clicked last will win - no way around that that I know of. What I did with his object for awhile was to keep it in a top corner, and use the mouseover event. That way, it won't compete with the taskbar and you don't even have to click, just throw your mouse up there.

Lately though, I've gone more for autohide objects.

hotrod11
Reply #15 Wednesday, August 24, 2005 1:17 PM
I'm using the normal WindowsTaskbar, (normal other than skined by WindowBlinds)....is it possible to set the z order for it? So I could have THBtB on top and my taskbar second....or would my open windows then cover my taskbar (assuming it was possible.)?

And for now, I went back to using DX2Minimizer, because of the excel problems.

And/Or can either of these two products be converted to be used on my ObjectDock?

OR... does anybody know of a way I can make the WindowsKey+M keypress or the script from DX2Minimizer into a windows shortcut that I can place on my Quicklaunch bar? That would be ideal for me!!

rabidrobot
Reply #16 Wednesday, August 24, 2005 1:19 PM
Hotrod,
Yeah, this is why I say _Martin_'s script is a better solution. The method used in THBtB is very counter-intuitive and unpredictable. I believe what is happening with your excel is it is getting a Full-Screen command. I don't have Excel, but in OpenOffice Calc the command is View->Full Screen or Ctrl-Shift-J to toggle back.
And I can't say why one Show Desktop minimizes widgets and IconX and the other doesn't. Maybe it's the difference between Windows-D and Windows-M. /shrug

For me, AndreasV's ShowDesktop docklet does not minimize widgets. I don't use IconX, though. I am beginning to think IconX may be a culprit in some of our confusion. I can also hit Windows-M OR Windows-D and keep my widgets/objects up just fine. Or it could be conflict with ObjectDock, which as I experiment is randomly drawing icons behind the dock, and cursor underneath...

MountainDragon,
Can you say more about the autohide objects? Sounds interesting...

rabidrobot
Reply #17 Wednesday, August 24, 2005 1:21 PM
You'll have to keep DesktopX objects and widgets in a different area of the screen than any occupied by docks or taskbar.

I don't think you can place DesktopX objects on Docks, but maybe ObjectBar...oh nevermind.

hotrod11
Reply #18 Wednesday, August 24, 2005 1:24 PM
Well, it's not a ObjectDock thing, because I just recently installed ObDock in hope of using the ShowDesktop docklet. And I don't think IconX is causing the problem, because, I had this problem before I installed IconX.

It's terribly frustrating. ESPECIALLY, when I read of others that don't have this problem.

And/Or can either of these two products be converted to be used on my ObjectDock?

OR... does anybody know of a way I can make the WindowsKey+M keypress or the script from DX2Minimizer into a windows shortcut that I can place on my Quicklaunch bar? That would be ideal for me!!

rabidrobot
Reply #19 Wednesday, August 24, 2005 1:38 PM
I'll look into getting _Martin_'s permission to incorporate his script. And I'll look into how one can set a hotkey combo to activate a DesktopX object/widget. I think I'd find that useful too, and maybe others would as well (I stopped using my own THBtB myself because of these problems).

Unfortunately I wouldn't even know how to approach turning that functionality into a shortcut that could be placed in Quick Launch...not saying it couldn't be done.

Until then,
rr

rabidrobot
Reply #20 Friday, August 26, 2005 12:55 PM
I have a new version of The Hardest Button To Button.

It is script based, which gives many benefits over v1.0
Not the least of which is it is much faster and responsive.

Features include:
Persistent Always On Top. (Inspired by a Latin4567 forum post can't find again)
User Definable Hotkey activation. (Thanks to MountainDragon and thomassen for discussing in the forum)
Original Mouse Over Activation
_Martin_'s Minimize/Restore script which behaves more intuitively.

Right now it is only in .dxpack form, I will need to recode it for widget/gadget export.

Before I upload it, it'd be great if others would test it a bit. Interested parties can contact me at rabidrobot [A-T] charter [D-O-T] net for a link to the beta.

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