Great GUI Interfaces...Lousy Newbie Interface
Tuesday, May 24, 2005 by CubaRoad | Discussion: New Users
An open message to All (or Anyone up the chain for that matter)
The Good: Like a kid in a candy store, I've seen some of the most inspired artwork within these pages. The ability to visualize then create is a gift. Kudos to the functional artists who continue the revolution and evolution of Skinning.
The Bad: It appears that SD/WC administrators have lost sight of target audience and best technique to reach them.
The Point: The Admins are doing themselves a disservice by not catering to the needs of the "newbie" from page one. I am a 27-year IT guy so I'm not typically intimidated by technology. However, I became so confused with Stardock v WC, suites v windowblinds and theme managers, objectdocks, etc. that it became too much a bother to figure out. I would find it hard to believe that there have not been a significant number of other "newbies" (especially the non-techie or willing but wary) that became similarly frustrated and left. Customers lost, revenue lost.
The Wrap: Primer(s) are necessary. The interface to the "newbie" needs rethinking. The objective is clear, educate so that "newbies" can explore, engage and enjoy. Fortunately, I know a guy that's equally creative, has made a living at managing chaos and is available to share knowledge with the SD/WC Administrators.
Perhaps this message will find its way to "right" pair of eyes.
Tom
The Good: Like a kid in a candy store, I've seen some of the most inspired artwork within these pages. The ability to visualize then create is a gift. Kudos to the functional artists who continue the revolution and evolution of Skinning.
The Bad: It appears that SD/WC administrators have lost sight of target audience and best technique to reach them.
The Point: The Admins are doing themselves a disservice by not catering to the needs of the "newbie" from page one. I am a 27-year IT guy so I'm not typically intimidated by technology. However, I became so confused with Stardock v WC, suites v windowblinds and theme managers, objectdocks, etc. that it became too much a bother to figure out. I would find it hard to believe that there have not been a significant number of other "newbies" (especially the non-techie or willing but wary) that became similarly frustrated and left. Customers lost, revenue lost.
The Wrap: Primer(s) are necessary. The interface to the "newbie" needs rethinking. The objective is clear, educate so that "newbies" can explore, engage and enjoy. Fortunately, I know a guy that's equally creative, has made a living at managing chaos and is available to share knowledge with the SD/WC Administrators.
Perhaps this message will find its way to "right" pair of eyes.
Tom
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Bichur
Reply #3 Tuesday, May 24, 2005 11:57 AM
Reply #3 Tuesday, May 24, 2005 11:57 AM
I was 27 a long time ago, I'm not an IT guy and I didn't even own a computer until 2003.
I read through the descriptions at SD. I read the gallery descriptions. I read the FAQs. I read the MISCs. I played with everything.
I figured out what each program is for.
I experimented and read the forums to learn how to use (as user, not skinner) the various programs.
So, on the one nand - it's all here.
On the other hand - it is scattered.
On the good hand - maybe a pinned article (similar to Koasati's or Skarnivorous') leading to Cordelia's tutorials for newbies on how to, would be nice.
I read through the descriptions at SD. I read the gallery descriptions. I read the FAQs. I read the MISCs. I played with everything.
I figured out what each program is for.
I experimented and read the forums to learn how to use (as user, not skinner) the various programs.
So, on the one nand - it's all here.
On the other hand - it is scattered.
On the good hand - maybe a pinned article (similar to Koasati's or Skarnivorous') leading to Cordelia's tutorials for newbies on how to, would be nice.
BoXXi
Reply #4 Tuesday, May 24, 2005 12:17 PM
Reply #4 Tuesday, May 24, 2005 12:17 PM
Indeed, the information is all here, you just have to take the time to look for it and read, read, read. But being in IT for 27 years, you would know that surely? 
lilstarfish
Reply #5 Tuesday, May 24, 2005 12:29 PM
Reply #5 Tuesday, May 24, 2005 12:29 PM
Hi CubaRoad 
I have to agree with what you are saying.
The thing is, I believe, that it would not be a super big task
to make sure everything would be easier to get to grips with,
it would just take a little working on the logic of it all.
It's imperative to make things as easy as possible for the end user,
no matter if he/she is a total newbie or a seasoned programmer,
it should be super easy to get up and working with the stuff.
In my little mind the solution is a far more streamlined, let's
say "integrated" look/workflow(hard to explain in a few words what
I see in my mind).
I have to agree with what you are saying.
The thing is, I believe, that it would not be a super big task
to make sure everything would be easier to get to grips with,
it would just take a little working on the logic of it all.
It's imperative to make things as easy as possible for the end user,
no matter if he/she is a total newbie or a seasoned programmer,
it should be super easy to get up and working with the stuff.
In my little mind the solution is a far more streamlined, let's
say "integrated" look/workflow(hard to explain in a few words what
I see in my mind).
CubaRoad
Reply #6 Tuesday, May 24, 2005 1:40 PM
Reply #6 Tuesday, May 24, 2005 1:40 PM
I'm glad to see a spark regarding my post.
To A-67 & BoXXi, I truly admire your work. (No slight intended Fuzzy.)
As a techno-analytical type I know that most answers/instructions/directions are embedded (somewhere) and I (perhaps we) have been trained to "search and conquer". In today's world we are in the minority BoXXi. Rightly or wrongly "taking the time to read, read, read" is typically not the preferred option. As a consumer, even I want it simple and straightforward. A well-designed web page will draw clients in...a convoluted one will repel. I believe that's the bottom line.
I put myself in the same techno category as A-67, Fuzzy & BoXXi...not afraid of the hunt. However, unless you're in the guns and ammo business "hunting" would not be advised as a revenue generation technique, or, market share enhancer.
While my comments are directed to the Powers that be (from my keyboard to their eyes)...my advocacy is of Bichur and lilstarfish. Moreover, if they to varying degrees have experienced what I describe, then how many more are there? Now multiply that number by $50 (minimally).
Nuff said (for now).
I defer to lilstarfish's comments as my summation. (Nicely put LSF.)
Do the Admins in Charge ever tap into these forums for feedback and expertise?
If they are watching, inject yourselves into the dialog, then, contact me.
Tom (aka CubaRoad)
To A-67 & BoXXi, I truly admire your work. (No slight intended Fuzzy.)
As a techno-analytical type I know that most answers/instructions/directions are embedded (somewhere) and I (perhaps we) have been trained to "search and conquer". In today's world we are in the minority BoXXi. Rightly or wrongly "taking the time to read, read, read" is typically not the preferred option. As a consumer, even I want it simple and straightforward. A well-designed web page will draw clients in...a convoluted one will repel. I believe that's the bottom line.
I put myself in the same techno category as A-67, Fuzzy & BoXXi...not afraid of the hunt. However, unless you're in the guns and ammo business "hunting" would not be advised as a revenue generation technique, or, market share enhancer.
While my comments are directed to the Powers that be (from my keyboard to their eyes)...my advocacy is of Bichur and lilstarfish. Moreover, if they to varying degrees have experienced what I describe, then how many more are there? Now multiply that number by $50 (minimally).
Nuff said (for now).
I defer to lilstarfish's comments as my summation. (Nicely put LSF.)
Do the Admins in Charge ever tap into these forums for feedback and expertise?
If they are watching, inject yourselves into the dialog, then, contact me.
Tom (aka CubaRoad)
paxx
Reply #7 Tuesday, May 24, 2005 5:23 PM
Reply #7 Tuesday, May 24, 2005 5:23 PM
There is a sister site for the customization newbies: http://www.xpthemes.com/
It's basically most of the most popular content, but displayed in more laymen terms. Same database and all, just a different front end.
It's basically most of the most popular content, but displayed in more laymen terms. Same database and all, just a different front end.
Jafo
Reply #9 Tuesday, May 24, 2005 7:15 PM
Reply #9 Tuesday, May 24, 2005 7:15 PM
When Wincustomize.com started there were a few thousand 'refugees' from skinz.org who naturally had a year or two's prior experience with skinning so had no difficulty getting a handle on this site....as you'd naturally expect.
Since then there's been perhaps 2 million 'newbies' who have braved the waters and not drowned, but obviously there'll be those whose attention-span is likened to a gnat who will lose 'interest' and go back to searching for Britney walls to 'skin their GUI'.
We're not likely to ever be able to cater for all.....
You can lead a horse to water, etc.....
lilstarfish
Reply #10 Tuesday, May 24, 2005 8:12 PM
Reply #10 Tuesday, May 24, 2005 8:12 PM
lo Admin Jafo
the problem is that the more muddy the water is
the less likely it will be that it will drink it.
Just one point(but one of uttermost importance);
Where is the "tutorials"-link on the frontpage?
the problem is that the more muddy the water is
the less likely it will be that it will drink it.
Just one point(but one of uttermost importance);
Where is the "tutorials"-link on the frontpage?
Bichur
Reply #11 Tuesday, May 24, 2005 9:17 PM
Reply #11 Tuesday, May 24, 2005 9:17 PM
In 'Select Channel' after you click the Articles tab.
lilstarfish
Reply #12 Tuesday, May 24, 2005 9:43 PM
Reply #12 Tuesday, May 24, 2005 9:43 PM
Thanks for proving my point Bichur 
And then the horror of how the "tutorials pages" are presented
to the viewer is worthy of a thread of it's own
(no offence to whomever designed the site,
just the obligatory big trout slap for lousy logic
And then the horror of how the "tutorials pages" are presented
to the viewer is worthy of a thread of it's own
(no offence to whomever designed the site,
just the obligatory big trout slap for lousy logic
Bichur
Reply #13 Tuesday, May 24, 2005 11:48 PM
Reply #13 Tuesday, May 24, 2005 11:48 PM
I figured that's what you wanted.
But bear in mind, for myself it is the logical place for it.
A tutorial is a 'how to' article.
Articles was the 1st place I looked when I saw no tutorial link on the home page.
But bear in mind, for myself it is the logical place for it.
A tutorial is a 'how to' article.
Articles was the 1st place I looked when I saw no tutorial link on the home page.
UzEE
Reply #14 Wednesday, May 25, 2005 12:44 AM
Reply #14 Wednesday, May 25, 2005 12:44 AM
Well every thing is there. I know it, Boxxi and A_67 know it, Fuzzy and Jafo know it, but a lot of people which came to the "new" site dont know it.
Even i'm having hard time going around the site. In my case its only because I was too much used to the previous site. I didnt have any problems like CubaRoad is saying. I just did what Bichur already said.
No doubt that the new site is a lot better than the previous one but in an attempt to make it technicaly rich ( which IS quite successful ), the Navigational Convinience is lost i.e. its not easy to navigate atleast compared to the previous site.
Even i'm having hard time going around the site. In my case its only because I was too much used to the previous site. I didnt have any problems like CubaRoad is saying. I just did what Bichur already said.
No doubt that the new site is a lot better than the previous one but in an attempt to make it technicaly rich ( which IS quite successful ), the Navigational Convinience is lost i.e. its not easy to navigate atleast compared to the previous site.
Bones2112
Reply #15 Wednesday, May 25, 2005 12:49 AM
Reply #15 Wednesday, May 25, 2005 12:49 AM
Maybe its just me but half the fun of customizing is hunting things down, finding solutions to problems, figuring out how to use the software. As you say, spending $50.00 on the software, I want the thrill to last just a little bit longer. 
I do understand your point though.
I do understand your point though.
Fuzzy Logic
Reply #16 Wednesday, May 25, 2005 2:01 AM
Reply #16 Wednesday, May 25, 2005 2:01 AM
You learn by finding out how things work. You would expect people who want to customize their pc to have at least a little pc/internet knowledge and so be able to navigate a website.
If you didn't have any mechanical knowledge you wouldn't really start changing your car's carburettor would you?
We were all new once, I don't remember needing any help or encouragement. If something interests me, I grab it formyself.
Fuzzy Logic
Reply #17 Wednesday, May 25, 2005 2:02 AM
Reply #17 Wednesday, May 25, 2005 2:02 AM
Of course some parts of the site could do with a 'tweak', but there are other things to get right here first
PurrBall
Reply #18 Wednesday, May 25, 2005 5:54 AM
Reply #18 Wednesday, May 25, 2005 5:54 AM
I was a newbie here once. What's so hard? If you want to find out about a proggy just click its name in the libraries panel on the left of the home page and read a little under 'description.'
CubaRoad
Reply #19 Wednesday, May 25, 2005 9:30 AM
Jafo, By your own words what was once a niche market (a few thousand) is now a mainstream marketplace (a few million). Everyone throughout this thread knows how dependent each one of us is upon technology and how cool it is. Slowly, the marketplace is becoming more computer literate, however, assuming that everyone (or even a majority) enjoy the "hunt" is not realistic and an unsound strategy. IMO the business philosophy of "content over convenience" (or at least at the sake of it) is an age old and all too common mistake. QVC stands for Quality, Value and Convenience. A growth oriented business as a stake in all three. Convenience (of all aspects) is the easiest way to convince the already willing consumer.
If the horse is thirsty, it will drink. If the water is refreshing, it may drink much more AND more often.
Jafo, I see that your userid is low double digits. Are you one of the Powers?
CubaRoad
Reply #19 Wednesday, May 25, 2005 9:30 AM
| When Wincustomize.com started there were a few thousand 'refugees' from skinz.org who naturally had a year or two's prior experience with skinning so had no difficulty getting a handle on this site....as you'd naturally expect. Since then there's been perhaps 2 million 'newbies' who have braved the waters and not drowned, but obviously there'll be those whose attention-span is likened to a gnat who will lose 'interest' and go back to searching for Britney walls to 'skin their GUI'. |
Jafo, By your own words what was once a niche market (a few thousand) is now a mainstream marketplace (a few million). Everyone throughout this thread knows how dependent each one of us is upon technology and how cool it is. Slowly, the marketplace is becoming more computer literate, however, assuming that everyone (or even a majority) enjoy the "hunt" is not realistic and an unsound strategy. IMO the business philosophy of "content over convenience" (or at least at the sake of it) is an age old and all too common mistake. QVC stands for Quality, Value and Convenience. A growth oriented business as a stake in all three. Convenience (of all aspects) is the easiest way to convince the already willing consumer.
If the horse is thirsty, it will drink. If the water is refreshing, it may drink much more AND more often.
Jafo, I see that your userid is low double digits. Are you one of the Powers?
CubaRoad
Bichur
Reply #20 Wednesday, May 25, 2005 10:00 AM
umm. I've seen some of their products. I will only agree calling & having it shipped to you is convenient.
While I understand you're only talking about a website - What ever happened to 'make do or do without?' The bulk of the aftermath of "Convenience of all aspects" can be found in your local landfill.
Reply #20 Wednesday, May 25, 2005 10:00 AM
| QVC stands for Quality, Value and Convenience. |
umm. I've seen some of their products. I will only agree calling & having it shipped to you is convenient.
| Convenience (of all aspects) is the easiest way to convince the already willing consumer. |
While I understand you're only talking about a website - What ever happened to 'make do or do without?' The bulk of the aftermath of "Convenience of all aspects" can be found in your local landfill.
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Reply #1 Tuesday, May 24, 2005 10:58 AM
Im a little curious to know what these needs are.
And do you mean "newbies" to the skinning community and/or WC or "newbies" to the craft?
All the information about what each program does is briefed at the SD site and any additional information and/or instructions can be found or asked on the public forums. There is also a support team at SD that can answer any question and can be reached via email.
Maybe I'm missing another point