Actually, If you dare to delve into the psychology of these rebel rousers you will find a motive more likely associated with not wanting to leave, with each apparition they bitterly complain about their mistreatment without really saying who mistreated them or when, ( i.e. examples.) They are people who are psychologically best described feeling as they deserve gratitude that has never been received or recognition that was never given for their perceived masterpieces. If they really wanted to go or if something was really a concern to them they would either just leave and not start a ridiculous thread about it or they would lay out a case by case analysis or the ‘wrongs’ committed…. I personally have a few log ons from Apocalypse and after hearing him whine like a baby I have decided to deep six it, I have never even heard of the others.

Just seen Brads main post - A67 perhaps you would like to respond to that as well...........or will there just be silence

Oh Fuzzy, just want to say I wasn't jumping on you. I myself yesterday wrote a post in response to those comments you quoted and then decided not to post it. It wasn't rude or inflammatory, but I do get a tad weary of people posting stuff akin to, "Oh, and you've been beating your wife again, haven't you?" as if such activity were a well established fact, when it isn't. But someone did take your comments and then made it sound as if it were a WC site pronouncement when you were just speaking for yourself.

Reminds me of that scene in MP...well looky here for something completely different:

WOMAN:
Well, how did you become King, then?
ARTHUR:
The Lady of the Lake,...
[angels sing]
...her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water signifying by Divine Providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur.
[singing stops]
That is why I am your king!
DENNIS:
Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
ARTHUR:
Be quiet!
DENNIS:
Well, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!
ARTHUR:
Shut up!
DENNIS:
I mean, if I went 'round saying I was an emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!
ARTHUR:
Shut up, will you? Shut up!
DENNIS:
Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system.
ARTHUR:
Shut up!
DENNIS:
Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help! I'm being repressed!
ARTHUR:
Bloody peasant!
DENNIS:
Oh, what a give-away. Did you hear that? Did you hear that, eh? That's what I'm on about. Did you see him repressing me? You saw it, didn't you?

Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help! I'm being repressed!

Strangely, DavidK and I just quoted that very Python yesterday...

Put another way, "stuff" on this site gets downloaded a lot. A WHOLE LOT. Even drek gets download a lot for some reason. Yesterday's most popular wallpaper here got about 600 downloads. Can you find a wallpaper on dA with half that per day? A quarter that? A fifth of that? That's because dA is an art community. It'd designed for artists to put up their work (of all kinds) for personal use and sharing with friends. WinCustomize is a skin site designed to distribute skins, themes, and wallpapers to users on a massive scale.

Just to let you know....I had a wall posted on DA that got 2000 downloads in nearly 2 days. The reason that a wall doesn't always show any D/L's is because the artists didn't provide a zip file for it. I honestly don't understand why you can't see even Nikos leaving.......the best skinnner you've ever had. Yeah, yeah I know, it may have been an isloated incident......or is it?

I think if you are to have a wallpaper section and possibly having control of the submission quality is by leaving it up to the community. If a wall isn't well liked then it gets purged..........but then how is that determined? Ratings maybe.....downloads...not sure. At least DavidK is willing to open up to idea's of improving the situation rather then the majority just telling us to go ahead and leave.

I would love to come back to WC if it meant that artists were treated fairly. As far as proof.............the only obvious proof is from those that would actually go and delete all their work because they don't want to be a part of WC in that way. I myself deleted about 40 walls. That was a lot of worked spanned over several months. It wasn't any easy decision but one I am glad I made.

I'm on the same boat as A_67 if any of you question my ability to make decent images go ahead and visit me at DA http://greenarmani.deviantart.com/gallery

*Regrets that he ever started this thread* This is getting WAY out of hand. > > >

Don't feel bad E.H. .... It would have started some other way! This place is a soap opera and the drama never ends!

I think it was Nuvem that managed the record....around 10,000 downloads in 24 hours....a long time ago when the site was considerably smaller.

Just call it a 'perspective' thing...

Of course, Helder is a genuine master of the digital medium....and just about any other medium as well, as evidenced by his works at Devart...

Oops...should'a mentioned...that record was here, at Wincustomize.com...and actually a 'joke' wall submission designed as a piss-take on all of those XP-centric walls [so prevalent at the time]...

As far as proof............. the only obvious proof is from those that would actually go and delete all their work because they don't want to be a part of WC in that way.

Again, that doesn't tell much. What way? By which admins or members are you not treated fairly? And what did they do?

After reading all this, (well, most of it) It occurred to me how hungry I was. I'll be back in a bit with my dinner.

I love to eat and read. carry on, carry on..




[Message Edited]

Again, that doesn't tell much. What way? By which admins or members are you not treated fairly? And what did they do?

I agree, in what way have they been treated unfairly by moderators or admins here?

In what way has any artist or skinner been treated unfarily by moderators or skinners?

The problem is, when someone removes their works here, they are removing their own clout.  Anyone who wants to really make changes is better served by working with the community rather than trying to dictate to it.

A person's works are their resume. Like it or not, WinCustomize is the big leagues. It is the place where more people come to download this stuff than anywhere else on the Internet. So when someoene takes their ball and goes home, it removes any influence they have. I have no idea whether Green Armani or whoever Ap67 is a good skinner or not. I have no way to tell whether they are a valued contributor or just a blow hard because their stuff isn't on the site anymore.

As for Adni, he is still here and is regularly in the top 10 most popular authors. When Adni speaks, people listen preciesely because his work does a lot of the speaking for them.

Hmmm.....I know that when Nikos brought up points about the way the rankings was being changed (For better or worse mind you) he was berated and for a lack of a better word.....told to "Shut-up". Now you can try to disprove that but I recall it like it was yesterday because I recall being quite active in that discussion...even further I mentioned that he was being treated unfairly "then". Not sure if you care to recall that or maybe you didn't notice it....but any of you that do remember, will know what I'm talking about.

Let's see Frogboy....when you say that you could careless about the wallpaper gallery and if no one ever submits anything that you could care less.....wouldn't you say that is a low blow? The top of the WC food chain is saying things that to artists who are taking there time and effort to make them is just thrown away that easily. Hmmmmm....that's an example is it not?

Hmmm.....I know that when Nikos brought up points about the way the rankings was being changed (For better or worse mind you) he was berated and for a lack of a better word.....told to "Shut-up". Now you can try to disprove that but I recall it like it was yesterday because I recall being quite active in that discussion...even further I mentioned that he was being treated unfairly "then". Not sure if you care to recall that or maybe you didn't notice it....but any of you that do remember, will know what I'm talking about.

In what way was Adni "berated"? The new system doesn't coutn anonymous downloads for use in the top authors and skins selections anymore hence making it harder to tamper with. This was done for authors I might point out.

Let's see Frogboy....when you say that you could careless about the wallpaper gallery and if no one ever submits anything that you could care less.....wouldn't you say that is a low blow? The top of the WC food chain is saying things that to artists who are taking there time and effort to make them is just thrown away that easily. Hmmmmm....that's an example is it not?

And how is this treating artist "unfairly"? Because I personally don't care about the wallpaper section? And? I also don't care about the Beatnik section either. Does that mean that Beatnik skin authors are treated "unfairly"? Or what about Kewlpad? I don't care about that section either. Are they getting treated "unfairly" too?

What I don't like is the elitist attitude taken by a small number of artists who excplicitly have taken on the attitude that their works are doing us a favor rather than it being a mutually beneficial arrangement.

I personally resent the attitude that you and Ap67 and lady A have taken that we are somehow basically your servants to provide you with a "service".

That's the attitude that I don't like. That's what annoys us. That we're just your slaves. Because you're not paying us (actually at least in your case you took out a subscription but Ap67 and Lady A certainly didn't). But labor is expected in return. In short, people like Lady A and Ap67 see us as their slaves apparently.  And that attitude is something I and others find quite rankling.

And it's not enough for someone to just go somewhere else, they feel the need to make a post about it so that they can demonstrate to the world their self-righteousness. For they seem to truly and honestly believe that we are their slaves and any attitude that deviates from that they find too "uppity" for their tastes.

Let's be real clear here: We allow artists to freely submit their works here. We provide the storage and the bandwidth so that their work is exposed to millions of people. And we do this freely. We ask for nothing in return.

Yet somehow, some of you believe that we are getting something in addition out of this. That somehow we make a profit off yoru wallpapers.

What, afterall, was the context of my comment "I could care less if someone submts a wallpaper"? It was in the context of certain people acting like this site would be nothing or greatly diminished without wallpapers.

So frankly, I and many others have no problem seeing people with an elitist attitude go off somewhere else.

Here, people are judged based on their actual deeds. Their contributions to the community over a long period of time. And we don't look at the community as some sort of clique of elite users. We recognize that the community is made up by thousands of peopel all contributing in in different ways. We recognize that the community extends far beyond this particular website as well. If Kol or Chaninja were posting here they would be accorded great respect despite not having much or any things here -- because of their contributions to the community.

But those are people who have provided real contributions to the community. Not some relatively newcomers who popped in over the last several months thinking they are god's gift to the world.

Maybe that's not the perception you and Ap67 and Lady A want to give off. But that certainly is the perception you are giving in your writings and deeds.

Jafo. Yes, well, at first I was only going to quote "Help! Help! I'm being repressed," but then couldn't resist including the "moistened bint" bit also. A true classic.

Hum, I didnt know that Lady_A left...When did that occur?

Sometime after she compared WInCustomize with a restraunt and herself as a customer at said restraunt.

Apparently, the volunteer moderators and admins here are, in her view, waiters and waitresses to serve her. She apparently sees a hierachy in community participation with her and others like her at the top of the pyramid and somewhere at the bottom are volunteers who actually run these sites on a day to day basis.

 

Also, A_67, I think its unreasonable for you to leave...Now, I dont know the details, but I think its childish to delete ones entire library of walls and skins just cause some idiot said that they're cr*p. You just have say, "Yea, well thats coming from some *ss who doesnt know what he's talking about" and move on...Instead of getting all worked up about it and saying, "Well, if he/she is gonna call my work cr*p, then Ill just leave and take my skins with me." You also take out upon those who (Like me) DO appreciate your work. You will notice...that most of the criticizm comes from ppl who havent made a single skin of wall worthy of upload.

*sigh*

DA and WC are two different sites. If you like one better than the other, then please support that site. I don't see what the big fuss is about. Apparently a whole lot of people prefer DA to WC, and apparently a whole lot of peolpe prefer WC to DA. Do I go around DA saying how much they suck and how much WC is better? Come on now, we are gown ups, we are allowed our preferences.

DA and WC are totally different beasts. DA is an Art site, while WC is mainly a Windows customization site. Consequently I find that a lot of people submitting to DA like to label themselves as "artists" while a lot of people submitting to WC like to consider themselves as "skinners". Nothing wrong with either.  Even the wallpapers subitted here are primarely considerd as such: wallpapers, as in meant to have icons on top, as in meant to complement the general look and feel of a customized GUI. While at DA, wallpapers are primarely submitted as "art". You could take the same piece, frame it and put it on your living room wall.
I doubt many downloaders here download stricly wallpapers. I feel quite comfortable saying that people here download wallpapers that will match the skins or theme they use.

DA have a LOT of wallpaper, or other digital artform. A LOT. Much more than they have skins and themes. In general, DA have a whole lot more stuff than we do here, but they have a comparable amount of visitors (or a bit more). It's really just a mathematical question.  Imagine a site gets 1 million downloads among 1,000 pieces. That's an average of 1000 downloads per piece. But if another site gets the same amount of downloads among a total of 1 million pieces, well that's an average of 1 download per piece. 

We'll never be DA. We'll never have that many wallpapers or skins to download from. For some people, that's why they like WC.

So, anyway. I have nothing against DA. Nothing at all. It's a completely different site with a completely different approach. Either you like one, or you like the other. Make your choice and move on.

Thank you.

I agree.  dA and WinCustomize are roughly equal in traffic.

But they are very different. dA is an art community. WinCustomize is a skin site. dA is the world's #1 art site.  WC is the world's #1 skin site.

Saying one is going to go over to dA is not much different than saying they're leaving to go visit Slashdot.

If you make things to customize your desktop with and want as many people in the world to see it and possibly use it, this is the site to do so.

If you want to create art to have part of a community portfolio, dA is the place to do it.

dA gets a lot more wallpapers and artwork than WC gets. WC gets a lot more skins and themes than dA gets.