SkinStudio 6 Beta Feedback
Tuesday, August 7, 2007 by Neil Banfield | Discussion: Stardock Support General
Please post general feedback about SkinStudio 6 here.
You must have WindowBlinds 6 beta installed to use SKS6, but any skins made with it should work with WindowBlinds 5 as well.
This is a beta so you should expect missing sections and bugs. If you find SKS is missing support for a specific section, please let us know!
If you are working on a new skin it would be best to ensure it is backed up before using SKS6. Remember in this beta all changes are saved instantly!
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ZubaZ
Reply #82 Wednesday, September 26, 2007 12:05 PM
Reply #82 Wednesday, September 26, 2007 12:05 PM
Frown = : (
Sad = ( : (
(spaces added to prevent conversion)
Sad = ( : (
(spaces added to prevent conversion)
thomassen
Reply #83 Thursday, September 27, 2007 4:50 PM
Reply #83 Thursday, September 27, 2007 4:50 PM
I'm making a concept for a WB skin in PS at the moment. I'm using SKS6 as reference for what controls to skin.
When it came to the progressbar I got confused.
Block
Red Block
Yellow Block
Blue block
But not description to what they do. Quentin helped me out fortunately. But it'd be nice if the descriptions gave some indication for their purpose. I mean, I guessed the Red was for error and Yellow for Pause, but I had no idea the difference between the green and Blue.
And for vertical there doesn't seem to be anywhere to edit Red, Yellow and Blue, even though the preview displays these variations.
When it came to the progressbar I got confused.
Block
Red Block
Yellow Block
Blue block
But not description to what they do. Quentin helped me out fortunately. But it'd be nice if the descriptions gave some indication for their purpose. I mean, I guessed the Red was for error and Yellow for Pause, but I had no idea the difference between the green and Blue.
And for vertical there doesn't seem to be anywhere to edit Red, Yellow and Blue, even though the preview displays these variations.
Daiwa
Reply #84 Thursday, September 27, 2007 11:29 PM
That sucks.
No Code View. No 'click preview to edit'. And we still don't have adequate Help/Image Criteria info (see thomassen's post #83).
These are "improvements"? The few intuitively logical parts of SKS5 got scrapped in SKS6. SKS6 is certainly prettier, but I don't yet see how it makes skinning "easier." Hate to be contrarian, but... Maybe if we beg loud & long enough, some of those intuitive features will be re-implemented. It is still beta...
Reply #84 Thursday, September 27, 2007 11:29 PM
It'd be nice to be able to click on the previews to bring up the edit control for that element. Like you could in SKS5.
I was told that wouldn't be being implemented, more's the pity.
I was told that wouldn't be being implemented, more's the pity.
That sucks.
No Code View. No 'click preview to edit'. And we still don't have adequate Help/Image Criteria info (see thomassen's post #83).
These are "improvements"? The few intuitively logical parts of SKS5 got scrapped in SKS6. SKS6 is certainly prettier, but I don't yet see how it makes skinning "easier." Hate to be contrarian, but... Maybe if we beg loud & long enough, some of those intuitive features will be re-implemented. It is still beta...
thomassen
Reply #85 Friday, September 28, 2007 4:36 AM
Reply #85 Friday, September 28, 2007 4:36 AM
I second Daiwa here. I've only used SKS6 the last couple of days, but I'm already missing some of the good parts of SKS5 UI.
Another thing: Not all elements now show each possible state. Scrollbars for instance. Only the normal state. How can I see how it looks like without applying the skin to test it? (Is there a test window anymore, like in SKS5-) If the preview had been interactive it wouldn't be much of an issue that each state isn't displayed at once.
And from SKS5- I remember that some controls had optional images. But how do you know which one these are in SKS6? I see I can set the image count, but I don't which images I can adjust. And if I remove or add images, which element states does it affect? SKS5- did describe this for most of them, though I'd often wished for a better description. But no description makes it harder.
And when I edit a section, the window that pops up is modal. I can't go back to the main window to for instance go and look at the Full preview. Or do a quick edit to another section. Not without closing the one I got up at the moment. Why not let the user open multiple windows to work in?
And how do you edit classic widgets' fonts and colours?
The UI is SKS6 is cleaner, and in some way better than SKS5, but there's also other cases where SKS6 is more awkward than SKS5 and doesn't provide the same help and functionality.
I've throw myself into this discussion a bit late, I've not skinned for a long time. But I'm just throwing in my few cents into this.
Another thing: Not all elements now show each possible state. Scrollbars for instance. Only the normal state. How can I see how it looks like without applying the skin to test it? (Is there a test window anymore, like in SKS5-) If the preview had been interactive it wouldn't be much of an issue that each state isn't displayed at once.
And from SKS5- I remember that some controls had optional images. But how do you know which one these are in SKS6? I see I can set the image count, but I don't which images I can adjust. And if I remove or add images, which element states does it affect? SKS5- did describe this for most of them, though I'd often wished for a better description. But no description makes it harder.
And when I edit a section, the window that pops up is modal. I can't go back to the main window to for instance go and look at the Full preview. Or do a quick edit to another section. Not without closing the one I got up at the moment. Why not let the user open multiple windows to work in?
And how do you edit classic widgets' fonts and colours?
The UI is SKS6 is cleaner, and in some way better than SKS5, but there's also other cases where SKS6 is more awkward than SKS5 and doesn't provide the same help and functionality.
I've throw myself into this discussion a bit late, I've not skinned for a long time. But I'm just throwing in my few cents into this.
thomassen
Reply #86 Friday, September 28, 2007 4:40 AM
Reply #86 Friday, September 28, 2007 4:40 AM
Ok, I just found out how to edit system colours. The drop down box in the colours section.
I wonder if two option boxes would be better? It's only two options, and it'd make it easier to discover the them.
I still don't see where to set system fonts. Or are these automatically defined by the skin? For instance, what defines the desktop font?
I wonder if two option boxes would be better? It's only two options, and it'd make it easier to discover the them.
I still don't see where to set system fonts. Or are these automatically defined by the skin? For instance, what defines the desktop font?
thomassen
Reply #87 Friday, September 28, 2007 4:48 AM
Reply #87 Friday, September 28, 2007 4:48 AM
Additionally, the groupbox got two images states. SKS6 says they must consist of two sub images. But what does the two sub images do? In SKS5 you can the drop downbox to view the various state of an control which where unique to each control. But in SKS6 it seem to be fixed to Normal, Mouseover, Pressed, Disabled, Focus/Default for all controls; even if they don't support them. I find that confusing.
Daiwa
Reply #88 Friday, September 28, 2007 6:20 PM
The two groupbox subimages are 1) for a group box with a header ("labelled" in SKSese), and 2) a group box without a header ("unlabelled" in SKSese). They should be tiled side-by-side & have the same overall dimensions, though the tiles can vary in appearance. Most of the time, a simple 1px- to 2px-thick border is the best option, using magic pink trans for the rest. Varying the top border location within the 1st subimage controls where the groupbox topborder intersects with the groupbox header image.
Reply #88 Friday, September 28, 2007 6:20 PM
Additionally, the groupbox got two images states. SKS6 says they must consist of two sub images. But what does the two sub images do?
The two groupbox subimages are 1) for a group box with a header ("labelled" in SKSese), and 2) a group box without a header ("unlabelled" in SKSese). They should be tiled side-by-side & have the same overall dimensions, though the tiles can vary in appearance. Most of the time, a simple 1px- to 2px-thick border is the best option, using magic pink trans for the rest. Varying the top border location within the 1st subimage controls where the groupbox topborder intersects with the groupbox header image.
thomassen
Reply #89 Saturday, September 29, 2007 5:45 AM
Reply #89 Saturday, September 29, 2007 5:45 AM
Thanks Daiwa.
So the groupbox border is fixed? max 2px? And the max height of hte groupbox height? I remember having trouble with this before.
So the groupbox border is fixed? max 2px? And the max height of hte groupbox height? I remember having trouble with this before.
Daiwa
Reply #90 Saturday, September 29, 2007 1:00 PM
Reply #90 Saturday, September 29, 2007 1:00 PM
What's been "broken" is trying to use an image to "fill" the groupbox frame - results in very unpredictable display from app to app, which is why most skinners have used an image which is transparent except for the border.
Neil Banfield
Reply #91 Saturday, September 29, 2007 1:04 PM
Reply #91 Saturday, September 29, 2007 1:04 PM
Groupboxes cannot fill the middle area. This is perfectly normal and is not a bug.
Daiwa
Reply #92 Saturday, September 29, 2007 1:08 PM
Reply #92 Saturday, September 29, 2007 1:08 PM
Did not mean to imply it was a "bug" Neil, hence the quotes around "broken". 
thomassen
Reply #93 Saturday, September 29, 2007 1:23 PM
Reply #93 Saturday, September 29, 2007 1:23 PM
I didn't mean "fixed" as something that's been broken, but "fixed" as in fixed size. Sorry, I should have mean more clear.
I was wondering how many pixels the border can be.
Sorry, I should have mean more clear.I was wondering how many pixels the border can be.
Neil Banfield
Reply #94 Saturday, September 29, 2007 1:42 PM
Reply #94 Saturday, September 29, 2007 1:42 PM
3 pixels by default on the edges (15 or so on the top)
There is also a mode to switch this to show 5 pixels on the borders (see groupbox header extras page in SKS6)
Daiwa
Reply #95 Saturday, September 29, 2007 3:46 PM
Oops. English is way too economical in allowing multiple meanings for individual words.
Reply #95 Saturday, September 29, 2007 3:46 PM
I didn't mean "fixed" as something that's been broken, but "fixed" as in fixed size.
Oops. English is way too economical in allowing multiple meanings for individual words.
thomassen
Reply #96 Saturday, September 29, 2007 4:18 PM
Reply #96 Saturday, September 29, 2007 4:18 PM
Thanks Neil! That's great info. That's the kindof stuff that'd be useful to find in SKS.
thebleedingedge
Reply #97 Wednesday, October 3, 2007 11:37 AM
Reply #97 Wednesday, October 3, 2007 11:37 AM
Is it possible to import Vista visual styles into SKS6, like you were able to do with .msstyles in SKS5?
thanks!
thanks!
milksama
Reply #98 Thursday, October 4, 2007 11:21 AM
Reply #98 Thursday, October 4, 2007 11:21 AM
thebleedingedge: At the moment, I do not believe that is an included feature.
-Mike
[Stardock Support]
DorkCoffeez
Reply #99 Friday, October 5, 2007 9:15 AM
Try to look at the reverse of this though. In this case you would be extremely mad if someone had taken elements of your work as their own. This walks a fine line. This would be even more compounded if the new skin created got a higher score or download count. Don't forget in the art world plagiarism is considered the equivalent of baby killer. The rules are there to project the integrity of everyone and to keep that clean and safe it must be applied in all instances.
Reply #99 Friday, October 5, 2007 9:15 AM
Kind of peeved by this app. I spent ages making a skin - having clicked the 'new skin' button... only to have it rejected because 'it contains elements of other peoples skins'. OK I know I did not skin every single last bit- it was a first effort for gods sake- but surely the default skin should not be made up of 'elements of other peoples work'... I mean if I click on new skin I expect it to be a blank slate- not to be accused of stealing for using some of the default settings!!!
Try to look at the reverse of this though. In this case you would be extremely mad if someone had taken elements of your work as their own. This walks a fine line. This would be even more compounded if the new skin created got a higher score or download count. Don't forget in the art world plagiarism is considered the equivalent of baby killer. The rules are there to project the integrity of everyone and to keep that clean and safe it must be applied in all instances.
Daiwa
Reply #100 Friday, October 5, 2007 2:02 PM
Reply #100 Friday, October 5, 2007 2:02 PM
I'm not so sure about that, Seabass6.7 - this doesn't seem analogous to plagiarism to me, since SD provides the template images. How is it kosher to distribute the template images for use but not kosher to use them in a skin? How is that different from "partial" skinning? If I submit a skin without progress animations, am I "plagiarizing" Microsoft's?
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Reply #81 Wednesday, September 26, 2007 11:53 AM