Vista Purchase Caveats
Some things to know before purchasing Windows Vista.
Monday, January 29, 2007 by Lotherius | Discussion: Windows Vista
Vista is a nice OS, I will probably upgrade within time. However, before you go all buy-happy, here are a few warnings:
1) You'll want the Premium version. Home Basic is needlessly crippled, and Ultimate is needlessly expensive. Unless you're doing wierd developery things (which you'd know if you were) then you likely don't need ultimate. The "Ultimate Extras" are not liable to be worth the extra outlay - and if they are - you can always upgrade later with an in-place upgrade at a reduced price. EDIT: If you are planning on purchasing several copies under the Family Licensing plan, Ultimate might be more attractive.
2) OEM Versions - If you see Vista Premium for a price around $119, or Ultimate for $199, be very careful. This is going to be an OEM version. NewEgg, for example, is ONLY offerring the OEM version. If you buy OEM, be prepared to have to cough up for another purchase if you ever change hardware, as it will be tied to the machine you first install it on. You MIGHT get one major hardware change - that is debated and remains to be seen - but you certainly won't get more than that.
EDIT: Some sources are saying that the only restriction on OEM versions are that you don't receive manuals or support. This contradicts many other supposedly trustworthy sources, and I don't see anything "official" either way from Microsoft. If you want to buy OEM, I'd suggest waiting a while and seeing what actual user experiences are with OEM activation issues.
3) Upgrade Versions - If you see Vista Premium for a price around $159.99 - be very careful. You're looking at an UPGRADE version. This means that you're asserting when you buy the OS that you already own a legit copy of Windows XP. Worse, you can no longer just show it the XP media like you could in older versions. You actually have to UPGRADE an existing copy of XP. There's NO clean install option. This means 3 things. A. if you don't actually own XP, and are a reforming pirate, you'll get screwed as it won't install. B. If your system craters and needs reinstalled, you'll be spending about twice as long reinstalling everything, since you'd actually have to install your OLD XP first, then upgrade to Vista. C. Without a clean install, there may/probably will be "issues" with reliability, as historically, upgrades are never as reliable as clean installs. Some retailers, such as Best Buy, are advertising Windows Vista Premium at this price without any mention of it being an upgrade version. Forewarned is forearmed.
Generally, nobody will be offering Vista for a discount for a long time. Most of the "deals" will involved bundled applications, printers, other misc hardware at a "reduced" price, and often with rebates. The actual copy of Vista will almost never be reduced below suggested retail, and won't be for a while. So if you are determined to buy Vista, you'll be paying through the nose, and best to do it for the full retail, NON-oem, NON-upgrade version of Premium.
Good luck!
EDIT 2: I've had several people tell me I'm wrong on various bits here. I didn't pull this stuff out of thin air - I did research. The problem here is that MS has NOT been up front about any of this stuff. There is a lot of shady marketing going on, and ultimately only the user stands to lose by it. Much of this will become clear within the coming weeks and months as people actually begin to test the limits of what Vista licensing does and doesn't allow on various versions, and what workarounds may exist. In each case though, I have attempted to go with the most documentable sources.
1) You'll want the Premium version. Home Basic is needlessly crippled, and Ultimate is needlessly expensive. Unless you're doing wierd developery things (which you'd know if you were) then you likely don't need ultimate. The "Ultimate Extras" are not liable to be worth the extra outlay - and if they are - you can always upgrade later with an in-place upgrade at a reduced price. EDIT: If you are planning on purchasing several copies under the Family Licensing plan, Ultimate might be more attractive.
2) OEM Versions - If you see Vista Premium for a price around $119, or Ultimate for $199, be very careful. This is going to be an OEM version. NewEgg, for example, is ONLY offerring the OEM version. If you buy OEM, be prepared to have to cough up for another purchase if you ever change hardware, as it will be tied to the machine you first install it on. You MIGHT get one major hardware change - that is debated and remains to be seen - but you certainly won't get more than that.
EDIT: Some sources are saying that the only restriction on OEM versions are that you don't receive manuals or support. This contradicts many other supposedly trustworthy sources, and I don't see anything "official" either way from Microsoft. If you want to buy OEM, I'd suggest waiting a while and seeing what actual user experiences are with OEM activation issues.
3) Upgrade Versions - If you see Vista Premium for a price around $159.99 - be very careful. You're looking at an UPGRADE version. This means that you're asserting when you buy the OS that you already own a legit copy of Windows XP. Worse, you can no longer just show it the XP media like you could in older versions. You actually have to UPGRADE an existing copy of XP. There's NO clean install option. This means 3 things. A. if you don't actually own XP, and are a reforming pirate, you'll get screwed as it won't install. B. If your system craters and needs reinstalled, you'll be spending about twice as long reinstalling everything, since you'd actually have to install your OLD XP first, then upgrade to Vista. C. Without a clean install, there may/probably will be "issues" with reliability, as historically, upgrades are never as reliable as clean installs. Some retailers, such as Best Buy, are advertising Windows Vista Premium at this price without any mention of it being an upgrade version. Forewarned is forearmed.
Generally, nobody will be offering Vista for a discount for a long time. Most of the "deals" will involved bundled applications, printers, other misc hardware at a "reduced" price, and often with rebates. The actual copy of Vista will almost never be reduced below suggested retail, and won't be for a while. So if you are determined to buy Vista, you'll be paying through the nose, and best to do it for the full retail, NON-oem, NON-upgrade version of Premium.
Good luck!
EDIT 2: I've had several people tell me I'm wrong on various bits here. I didn't pull this stuff out of thin air - I did research. The problem here is that MS has NOT been up front about any of this stuff. There is a lot of shady marketing going on, and ultimately only the user stands to lose by it. Much of this will become clear within the coming weeks and months as people actually begin to test the limits of what Vista licensing does and doesn't allow on various versions, and what workarounds may exist. In each case though, I have attempted to go with the most documentable sources.
jtherrien
Reply #2 Monday, January 29, 2007 8:43 PM
Reply #2 Monday, January 29, 2007 8:43 PM
#2 is not true.
You may change your hardware, but if you do a MAJOR hardware change, as in change MOBO + CPU, you need to phone Microsoft to re-activate the system. This is allowed, but it requires a phone call IF you find it won't let you activate.
Vista prices as OEM (full):
Home Premium: $120
Business: $150
Ultimate: $200
The major difference between OEM and Retail, besides not getting the fancy case and full manual, is that you won't get full support from Microsoft for the system. That's what makes up for the price difference. Many people don't need that, and if that's the case, the OEM copy is probably a better way to go.
You may change your hardware, but if you do a MAJOR hardware change, as in change MOBO + CPU, you need to phone Microsoft to re-activate the system. This is allowed, but it requires a phone call IF you find it won't let you activate.
Vista prices as OEM (full):
Home Premium: $120
Business: $150
Ultimate: $200
The major difference between OEM and Retail, besides not getting the fancy case and full manual, is that you won't get full support from Microsoft for the system. That's what makes up for the price difference. Many people don't need that, and if that's the case, the OEM copy is probably a better way to go.
PurrBall
Reply #3 Monday, January 29, 2007 8:49 PM
Reply #3 Monday, January 29, 2007 8:49 PM
jtherrien,
Vista is not XP. When Lotherius says it is tied to one system, that's that. It IS tied to only one system -- since that is the way OEM copies are licensed.
According to MS' website, the Ultimate upgrade doesn't require an XP install.
Vista is not XP. When Lotherius says it is tied to one system, that's that. It IS tied to only one system -- since that is the way OEM copies are licensed.
According to MS' website, the Ultimate upgrade doesn't require an XP install.
Lotherius
Reply #4 Monday, January 29, 2007 8:51 PM
Reply #4 Monday, January 29, 2007 8:51 PM
See here: ZDNet Post Regarding Vista License
The Relevant bit: If you purchase a new computer with Windows Vista preinstalled, or if you build your own PC using an OEM version of Windows, this change doesn't affect you. Your copy is locked to that PC and cannot be transferred to another.
I keep seeing people claim otherwise, but I don't see any hard evidence of it. What I do see, is a lot of talk that isn't backed up. I will make a note in the article, however, to make the controversy more clear.
The Relevant bit: If you purchase a new computer with Windows Vista preinstalled, or if you build your own PC using an OEM version of Windows, this change doesn't affect you. Your copy is locked to that PC and cannot be transferred to another.
I keep seeing people claim otherwise, but I don't see any hard evidence of it. What I do see, is a lot of talk that isn't backed up. I will make a note in the article, however, to make the controversy more clear.
UBoB
Reply #5 Monday, January 29, 2007 9:27 PM
Reply #5 Monday, January 29, 2007 9:27 PM
The advantage of Ultimate from my point of view is the Family Pack, wherein I will be able to purchase 2 additional licenses for Home Vista Premium at a cost of between 50 to 100 dollars each. I have multiple computers at home and if I had to pay full price to upgrade all to Vista, well, it just wouldn't be feasible.
WWW Link
WWW Link
Corky_O
Reply #6 Monday, January 29, 2007 10:02 PM
Reply #6 Monday, January 29, 2007 10:02 PM
| You actually have to UPGRADE an existing copy of XP. There's NO clean install option. |
You may need to check your information on this one.
According to MS Vista page, you can do a clean install using the upgrade http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/buyorupgrade/upgradepaths.mspx 
Lotherius
Reply #7 Monday, January 29, 2007 10:43 PM
Reply #7 Monday, January 29, 2007 10:43 PM
You might want to check your sources too. I did research this before posting:
Ars Tecnica Link
ZDNet Link
Microsoft Confirmation and a POSSIBLE workaround
So at BEST, there's a "maybe" on this one. Many sources today are reporting however that a clean install will not be available for upgrade versions.
Ars Tecnica Link
ZDNet Link
Microsoft Confirmation and a POSSIBLE workaround
So at BEST, there's a "maybe" on this one. Many sources today are reporting however that a clean install will not be available for upgrade versions.
Jafo
Reply #8 Monday, January 29, 2007 11:09 PM
Reply #8 Monday, January 29, 2007 11:09 PM
I think that what can definitely be learned from this is that at present every man and his dog has 'The Answer'....and exactly no-one is right - maybe.
So....
the 'caveat' should be.....
Wait and see, because it's clearly too early to actually KNOW....
Lotherius
Reply #9 Monday, January 29, 2007 11:14 PM
Agreed. I know that I certainly am not buying today.
Reply #9 Monday, January 29, 2007 11:14 PM
| the 'caveat' should be..... Wait and see, because it's clearly too early to actually KNOW.... |
Agreed. I know that I certainly am not buying today.
SanChonino
Reply #10 Monday, January 29, 2007 11:32 PM
I'm not buying for another year or two . . . I'll wait until the equivalent of the SP 2 comes along . . . they are supporting my XP-ness for another five years, after all . . .
(ji ji ji, I just said p-ness.
)
Reply #10 Monday, January 29, 2007 11:32 PM
| I know that I certainly am not buying today. |
I'm not buying for another year or two . . . I'll wait until the equivalent of the SP 2 comes along . . . they are supporting my XP-ness for another five years, after all . . .
(ji ji ji, I just said p-ness.
)
jtherrien
Reply #11 Tuesday, January 30, 2007 1:14 AM
Reply #11 Tuesday, January 30, 2007 1:14 AM
So, you're technically right for point #2 now that I've looked into it some more, but in practice you will likely be able to transfer with a phone call. XP had OEM licensing the same way as far as I know, where technically it was tied to one machine, but in practice they would accommodate for system rebuilds and such.
I've heard this from people who work in MS Tech Support. It's no big deal. They just don't want people installing an OEM copy on 1000 computers, hence the licensing agreement. They'll accommodate a system change ever year or two no problem.
I've heard this from people who work in MS Tech Support. It's no big deal. They just don't want people installing an OEM copy on 1000 computers, hence the licensing agreement. They'll accommodate a system change ever year or two no problem.
jtherrien
Reply #12 Tuesday, January 30, 2007 1:31 AM
You CAN do a clean install, but only if XP is on there first. Tricky.
Reply #12 Tuesday, January 30, 2007 1:31 AM
| You may need to check your information on this one. According to MS Vista page, you can do a clean install using the upgrade http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/buyorupgrade/upgradepaths.mspx |
You CAN do a clean install, but only if XP is on there first. Tricky.
c242
Reply #13 Tuesday, January 30, 2007 3:21 AM
Reply #13 Tuesday, January 30, 2007 3:21 AM
We will get 'System Builder' versions here in Germany, which are different to OEMs as they are not tight to one machine. Don't know if that option exists in Your part of the world.
UBoB
Reply #14 Tuesday, January 30, 2007 6:11 AM
Reply #14 Tuesday, January 30, 2007 6:11 AM
Betas 1 and 2 and the RTM worked very well on my system. I'll be upgrading immediately, (in fact, Amazon just notified me that my copies have been shipped and will arrive later today.)
Since I had no problems with it during the year or so that I ran the betas and the RTM I feel, why wait? It's not like I can't update to the service packs when they are released, and in the meantime both my wife and myself are using the new OS getting that much more experience with it over those that have decided to wait for some magical moment in the future when it will become Super OS.
Since I had no problems with it during the year or so that I ran the betas and the RTM I feel, why wait? It's not like I can't update to the service packs when they are released, and in the meantime both my wife and myself are using the new OS getting that much more experience with it over those that have decided to wait for some magical moment in the future when it will become Super OS.
Oracle Bill
Reply #15 Tuesday, January 30, 2007 10:38 PM
Reply #15 Tuesday, January 30, 2007 10:38 PM
OK, I purchased a new copy of XP Pro SR2b on 10/26/06 with my new system upgrade, the first day that a upgrade redemption form was made available for VISTA with a XP purchases. My Upgrade form says I am authorized to get a copy of Windows Vista Business.
I've looked into the different versions of Vista and I don't like what I see in the Business addition. I want multimedia and DVD authoring support. So I want to upgrade to the Ultimate version of Vista and get it all. I would like to do this when I apply for my upgrade. (An upgrade to the upgrade.) I went to the web site and I see myself locked into the Business version. So I guess I just order the Business version and later on pay for the upgrade. Too bad, I would like to get it all done in one step.
I've also read that SR1 for Vista will be available in about 6 months. I think it would be best to wait for this before I upgrade to Vista. I am concerned about driver support, slower game play, overhead within Vista, and DRM. Perhaps some of this will improve over the next 6 months.
Anyways, I have to upgrade before the end of March, it will take 4 to 6 weeks to get the disk, and then I will wait for another 3 or 4 months to put it onto my computer. Hope this works out. In the mean time, I will be watching the feedback coming from users on how Vista is working out and hoping I can miss some of the pit falls.
I've looked into the different versions of Vista and I don't like what I see in the Business addition. I want multimedia and DVD authoring support. So I want to upgrade to the Ultimate version of Vista and get it all. I would like to do this when I apply for my upgrade. (An upgrade to the upgrade.) I went to the web site and I see myself locked into the Business version. So I guess I just order the Business version and later on pay for the upgrade. Too bad, I would like to get it all done in one step.
I've also read that SR1 for Vista will be available in about 6 months. I think it would be best to wait for this before I upgrade to Vista. I am concerned about driver support, slower game play, overhead within Vista, and DRM. Perhaps some of this will improve over the next 6 months.
Anyways, I have to upgrade before the end of March, it will take 4 to 6 weeks to get the disk, and then I will wait for another 3 or 4 months to put it onto my computer. Hope this works out. In the mean time, I will be watching the feedback coming from users on how Vista is working out and hoping I can miss some of the pit falls.
Gideon MacLeish
Reply #16 Tuesday, January 30, 2007 10:59 PM
No, you said XP-ness...is there a major change in your life we should know about?
Reply #16 Tuesday, January 30, 2007 10:59 PM
| (ji ji ji, I just said p-ness. ) |
No, you said XP-ness...is there a major change in your life we should know about?
SanChonino
Reply #17 Tuesday, January 30, 2007 11:56 PM
Lemme check, lemme check . . . nope. Still intact. Repeat, the package is still intact.
Reply #17 Tuesday, January 30, 2007 11:56 PM
| No, you said XP-ness...is there a major change in your life we should know about? |
Lemme check, lemme check . . . nope. Still intact. Repeat, the package is still intact.
CJ Williams
Reply #18 Sunday, February 4, 2007 3:09 PM
Reply #18 Sunday, February 4, 2007 3:09 PM
XP was giving me major proplems after being rock solid for a year, so I did a reinstall, and in the middle of the install I thought why am I doing this. I went to my local computer store and purchased Vista Home Premium Upgrade. It gave me the option to do a clean install. However I just upgraded over XP, but you can do a clean install with the upgrade disc.
As for Vista, that's another story!
The User Account Control (UAC) is driving me crazy. You can install older XP programs, but every time you start a program a warning box pops up. Then you have to give the program permission to run. It's like starting the program twice, and it's very time consuming. Many programs like Zone Alarm will not run. Others like Diskeeper 7 have updates you must locate and install to make the program run.
So be prepaired to update, update, and do more updates. Drivers are also a major pain, My HP scanjet 4670 scanner and Photosmart Printer have no drivers. I was able to to find a driver to have basic use of the printer but that was all. HP said that the drivers would not be ready until March or April.
As for Vista, that's another story!
The User Account Control (UAC) is driving me crazy. You can install older XP programs, but every time you start a program a warning box pops up. Then you have to give the program permission to run. It's like starting the program twice, and it's very time consuming. Many programs like Zone Alarm will not run. Others like Diskeeper 7 have updates you must locate and install to make the program run.
So be prepaired to update, update, and do more updates. Drivers are also a major pain, My HP scanjet 4670 scanner and Photosmart Printer have no drivers. I was able to to find a driver to have basic use of the printer but that was all. HP said that the drivers would not be ready until March or April.
Nadeon
Reply #19 Sunday, March 11, 2007 2:39 PM
From what I've read I believe this to be a bit misleading. The install type is tied to the CD Key you've purchased (either Retail Box, or Download; I did the download thing from MS (actually Circuit City) but used a WinBeta AIO DVD using my legit Key...btw the WinBeta is the RTM code not pirated).
Reply #19 Sunday, March 11, 2007 2:39 PM
It gave me the option to do a clean install. However I just upgraded over XP, but you can do a clean install with the upgrade disc.
From what I've read I believe this to be a bit misleading. The install type is tied to the CD Key you've purchased (either Retail Box, or Download; I did the download thing from MS (actually Circuit City) but used a WinBeta AIO DVD using my legit Key...btw the WinBeta is the RTM code not pirated).
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Reply #1 Monday, January 29, 2007 8:25 PM