New Rating System
wincustomize needs it badly
Saturday, April 8, 2006 by homeryulo | Discussion: WinCustomize Site Issues
another disappointment from me....I was excited submitting my new work "Samurai" and had nice grade (8) from fair administrators but after a while it only averaged 5 from members. I think the rating system has a bit of politics here. No wonder talented folks is leaving this site. Dont get me wrong...I respect your opinions but 8 to 5 is a bit strange isnt it. Well its okey for now, I have deleted my work already so dont bother. If you want to see it, just visit this link and leave responsible comments.
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/31504238/
Thank you! Oh and yeah! This site badly needs a new rating system.
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/31504238/
Thank you! Oh and yeah! This site badly needs a new rating system.
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homeryulo
Reply #42 Sunday, April 9, 2006 7:23 PM
Reply #42 Sunday, April 9, 2006 7:23 PM
oh yeah...I just want to point out the rating and comment system in customize.org where the name of the person rating and the comments are shown together with their rates. I know many people here have some issues with that site, and honestly I had mine once, but at least the rating system is very effecient and the people there do constructive criticisms because they know they are being watched. Those things would do great in this site...dont you think?..just an idea. 
Jafo
Reply #43 Sunday, April 9, 2006 7:34 PM
Reply #43 Sunday, April 9, 2006 7:34 PM
| and the people there do constructive criticisms because they know they are being watched. |
To be fair, Customize.org was legendary for it's asinine commenting/wit, years before Wincustomize.com even began. Things 'may' have improved more recently but I wouldn't count on it too much...
People are being 'watched' here, too. It's still the number one reason for people being removed from the site. That goes for poor rating conduct as well as poor commenting 'conduct'.....
homeryulo
Reply #44 Sunday, April 9, 2006 8:01 PM
Reply #44 Sunday, April 9, 2006 8:01 PM
sorry Jafo...i dont want to be so stubborn here hehe...but unless maybe you have a system to remind everyone that they are always being watched, people would still do their reckless ratings on many works here,in fact sometimes I also tend to do it as immature as I am but at last I had my own deal now with that immaturity ....and that is not really very encouraging at all. Ratings should be more responsible here, we need discipline not only coming from ourselves but it would not be bad if the community would help push a little discipline in us, I am just asking for a little deal on that. Thanks again for taking your time on this.
Double Zero
Reply #45 Sunday, April 9, 2006 9:27 PM
Ya know..whether or not the site mentioned "sucks" or not ya gotta admit..thats a pretty cool idea...but this *has been mentioned over & over and over..LoL
Maybe they got the idea from here..LoL!
Ah well... just thought to "2cnd" the motion again,,and again..and...
LOL
Reply #45 Sunday, April 9, 2006 9:27 PM
| .I just want to point out the rating and comment system in customize.org where the name of the person rating and the comments are shown together with their rates. |
Ya know..whether or not the site mentioned "sucks" or not ya gotta admit..thats a pretty cool idea...but this *has been mentioned over & over and over..LoL
Maybe they got the idea from here..LoL!
Ah well... just thought to "2cnd" the motion again,,and again..and...
LOL
Jafo
Reply #46 Sunday, April 9, 2006 9:42 PM
Reply #46 Sunday, April 9, 2006 9:42 PM
| we need discipline not only coming from ourselves but it would not be bad if the community would help push a little discipline in us, |
Looking after/out for a site the size of Wincustomize.com by overbearing 'discipline' from the Admins/mods would be draconian at best. Generally the Users here are sufficiently mature and responsible not to be needing their hand held by some authority figure.
However, when things go awry we're well stocked with thumb-screws and bamboo for the fingernails...so all is well...
Seriously, it's not really that much of an issue that the vocal minority is wont to argue. Issues relating to ratings....and the resultant threads are simply a seasonal thing, only occurring on days ending in 'y' ....
homeryulo
Reply #47 Sunday, April 9, 2006 9:57 PM
Reply #47 Sunday, April 9, 2006 9:57 PM
okey..very well jafo ...i wont push it for now...just want to quote this though
maybe it is the case because not so many users are so vocal about their complaints. But anyhow, maybe this is just unwanted things we just have to deal with. Life must go on anyhow, no matter how disappointing it is sometimes... thanks a lot anyways.
...i wont push it for now...just want to quote this though| issues relating to ratings....and the resultant threads are simply a seasonal thing, only occurring on days ending in 'y' .... |
maybe it is the case because not so many users are so vocal about their complaints. But anyhow, maybe this is just unwanted things we just have to deal with. Life must go on anyhow, no matter how disappointing it is sometimes... thanks a lot anyways.
eieio
Reply #48 Monday, April 10, 2006 6:22 AM
Reply #48 Monday, April 10, 2006 6:22 AM
My impression is that the ratings system works pretty well here. The mods keep it pretty well under control, as far as spotting those with a bone to pick or a thorn up their butt. Naturally they could always use a bit of help spotting those instances as they can't see everything.
The thing that causes most people to post threads like this every few months or so, is the facet about ratings that no one can control and that is rating based on how trendy the work is or isn't. I'm talking about what is popular or the flavor of the day. Believe me, the works getting high ratings today won't be getting them in few months or so, when the 'new and improved' trend catches hold. It's not necessarily a bad thing, although it is a bit lemming-like. But that's not the point here. Like a few other sites, Wincustomize, and I'm talking about the users as a whole, is fairly trendy and fickle; quick to glom on to whatever it perceives as worthy.
Here's test. Can anyone think of a submitter that has put forth work in the same style and quality for an extended period AND gotten consistent ratings? I can think of very few. For the most part, usually the last in a genre will be the last because, although it is every bit as good as it's predecessors, it has outlived its life in the popularity cycle and gets rated not on its merits or quality but on trends.
Bottom line, I believe pointing the blame at the WC mods is misplaced, it is the fickle and trendy users that change their minds about what is good and deserving of high praise and marks.
The thing that causes most people to post threads like this every few months or so, is the facet about ratings that no one can control and that is rating based on how trendy the work is or isn't. I'm talking about what is popular or the flavor of the day. Believe me, the works getting high ratings today won't be getting them in few months or so, when the 'new and improved' trend catches hold. It's not necessarily a bad thing, although it is a bit lemming-like. But that's not the point here. Like a few other sites, Wincustomize, and I'm talking about the users as a whole, is fairly trendy and fickle; quick to glom on to whatever it perceives as worthy.
Here's test. Can anyone think of a submitter that has put forth work in the same style and quality for an extended period AND gotten consistent ratings? I can think of very few. For the most part, usually the last in a genre will be the last because, although it is every bit as good as it's predecessors, it has outlived its life in the popularity cycle and gets rated not on its merits or quality but on trends.
Bottom line, I believe pointing the blame at the WC mods is misplaced, it is the fickle and trendy users that change their minds about what is good and deserving of high praise and marks.
WOM
Reply #49 Monday, April 10, 2006 6:39 AM
Reply #49 Monday, April 10, 2006 6:39 AM
Nice take on things and I'am sure this has excaped a lot of people. Not sure if it fits this situation but I'am sure it does apply to a lot of them.
SKoriginals
Reply #50 Monday, April 10, 2006 11:24 AM
Reply #50 Monday, April 10, 2006 11:24 AM
Very good point, trends do set a tone for rating just as much as anything else. Take the transparency crazy when wb5 first came out or continuing ones like the "Vista" cloning stuff... so on and so forth.
Way to go pictoratus on some further insight, as WOM said.
Way to go pictoratus on some further insight, as WOM said.
StephanA
Reply #51 Monday, April 10, 2006 2:02 PM
Reply #51 Monday, April 10, 2006 2:02 PM
Nobody and nothing is unreplaceable. Art is 100% subjective. Opinions are based on your personal background, your upbringing, your education, your intellect, your likes and dislikes. Humans are fickle. Nature of the beast. Great art is timeless, trends are fashionable and seasonal. Great artistic talent is unique; everything else is mediocrity. Homeryulo, I like your work. Put up or shut up and I do agree with Kenwas has to say. Believe in yourself, man. Nothing else matters.
Double Zero
Reply #52 Monday, April 10, 2006 2:17 PM
Im a soooooo very sick of Vista...when the OS actually is released i may puke..LoL
"Trendy" is something I have never been much for... I really dont go after stuff because everybody else thinks it the best thing since sliced bread..I like stuff because I have made my own opinion of it...
It is a sad reality though if it is even slightly true, which of course I am sure it is... Ratings should not be based upon "trends" especially at a "Skinning" or "Art" site. They should be based upon the overall quality of the work and the usability of it...no matter what the content is.. Leave the "Trends" for the "Glam" sites and focus on the talent and work on the "Skinning" sites...
Reply #52 Monday, April 10, 2006 2:17 PM
| Very good point, trends do set a tone for rating just as much as anything else. Take the transparency crazy when wb5 first came out or continuing ones like the "Vista" cloning stuff... so on and so forth Way to go pictoratus on some further insight, as WOM said. |
Im a soooooo very sick of Vista...when the OS actually is released i may puke..LoL
"Trendy" is something I have never been much for... I really dont go after stuff because everybody else thinks it the best thing since sliced bread..I like stuff because I have made my own opinion of it...
It is a sad reality though if it is even slightly true, which of course I am sure it is... Ratings should not be based upon "trends" especially at a "Skinning" or "Art" site. They should be based upon the overall quality of the work and the usability of it...no matter what the content is.. Leave the "Trends" for the "Glam" sites and focus on the talent and work on the "Skinning" sites...
Cyberworld
Reply #53 Monday, April 10, 2006 6:01 PM
Reply #53 Monday, April 10, 2006 6:01 PM
I've been out of this site for quite alot...but from what it seems not much has changed...
As for my whereabout i have been lurking on DA since the day i left WC....and to be honest i liked it more over there than here...(and yes this is very subjective to say, but i'm still entitled of opinion, no)
The reason why is because people actually interact over there. And that is part of the essence of being a human being. That is what it makes us people. Lousy figures don't. I've been to WC for 5-6 years now and i have almost 800 000 downloads (i guess that must be the reason i became a Master Apprentice too), a figure i suspect i won't be achieving for a long long time in DA. Ask me how i feel about it. I feel GREAT! Cause i got little downloads and lots of communication. Actual people from all parts of the Earth actually say their opinion, either good or bad! I've been on DA for less than four months and i've got already 1300 comments, while after 5-6 year here in WC i only got 1136! Amazing how people stay quiet here...
Get a grip of yourself all...the real pleasure ain't to see some numbers grow...it's in what people think of your creation...the interaction between the creator, the creation and the viewer. That is the essence in all forms of art.
May NUMBERS become less important and actual COMMUNICATION becomes the goal in art.
With that said i salute you all and wish you the best.
PS: "Ghastly is the reduction of human into a cog-wheel" (one of the greatest thinkers said this, think of it a bit).
As for my whereabout i have been lurking on DA since the day i left WC....and to be honest i liked it more over there than here...(and yes this is very subjective to say, but i'm still entitled of opinion, no
)The reason why is because people actually interact over there. And that is part of the essence of being a human being. That is what it makes us people. Lousy figures don't. I've been to WC for 5-6 years now and i have almost 800 000 downloads (i guess that must be the reason i became a Master Apprentice too), a figure i suspect i won't be achieving for a long long time in DA. Ask me how i feel about it. I feel GREAT! Cause i got little downloads and lots of communication. Actual people from all parts of the Earth actually say their opinion, either good or bad! I've been on DA for less than four months and i've got already 1300 comments, while after 5-6 year here in WC i only got 1136! Amazing how people stay quiet here...
Get a grip of yourself all...the real pleasure ain't to see some numbers grow...it's in what people think of your creation...the interaction between the creator, the creation and the viewer. That is the essence in all forms of art.
May NUMBERS become less important and actual COMMUNICATION becomes the goal in art.
With that said i salute you all and wish you the best.
PS: "Ghastly is the reduction of human into a cog-wheel" (one of the greatest thinkers said this, think of it a bit).
Fairyy~
Reply #54 Monday, April 10, 2006 6:40 PM
What an excellent post Pictoratus.
I think we all forget about " trends " and the fact that most people tend to follow the crowd. I'm sure we have all bought something just 'cause "everyone else has one so it must be the "in" thing to do.
I'm still wondering why I bought the Andy Warhol Soup Can artsie fartsie print years ago.I don't even like soup
Reply #54 Monday, April 10, 2006 6:40 PM
| pictoratus: Here's test. Can anyone think of a submitter that has put forth work in the same style and quality for an extended period AND gotten consistent ratings? I can think of very few. For the most part, usually the last in a genre will be the last because, although it is every bit as good as it's predecessors, it has outlived its life in the popularity cycle and gets rated not on its merits or quality but on trends. |
What an excellent post Pictoratus.
I think we all forget about " trends " and the fact that most people tend to follow the crowd. I'm sure we have all bought something just 'cause "everyone else has one so it must be the "in" thing to do.
I'm still wondering why I bought the Andy Warhol Soup Can artsie fartsie print years ago.I don't even like soup
Jafo
Reply #55 Monday, April 10, 2006 6:47 PM
Reply #55 Monday, April 10, 2006 6:47 PM
| i've got already 1300 comments, while after 5-6 year here in WC i only got 1136! Amazing how people stay quiet here... Get a grip of yourself all...the real pleasure ain't to see some numbers grow... |
I could be wrong but that still seems to be all about numbers....
DigitalDanes
Reply #56 Monday, April 10, 2006 7:29 PM
In this case, the numbers are relative to the comments not the rating of a skin; the better question would be of the 1300 or so comments gotten at the other site, how many are REALLY communicating some kind of discussion on the merits of the skin (does it need something, is it missing something, can it be improved on, does it have flaws, etc.?)? If it's just 1300+ comments of "oh, that's great" or "geeze that stinks" with nothing there to back up the comment then it is still just about the numbers.
DD
Reply #56 Monday, April 10, 2006 7:29 PM
| I could be wrong but that still seems to be all about numbers.... |
In this case, the numbers are relative to the comments not the rating of a skin; the better question would be of the 1300 or so comments gotten at the other site, how many are REALLY communicating some kind of discussion on the merits of the skin (does it need something, is it missing something, can it be improved on, does it have flaws, etc.?)? If it's just 1300+ comments of "oh, that's great" or "geeze that stinks" with nothing there to back up the comment then it is still just about the numbers.
DD
NetBadger
Reply #57 Monday, April 10, 2006 10:13 PM
Reply #57 Monday, April 10, 2006 10:13 PM
I must admit that consistently seeing an item rated by the moderater at a certain level go down two points is disappointing. Will I lose sleep over it, No. But to say that it had zero effect, isn't realistic either. I must say that for the most part, I'm getting some good constructive criticism, and often rework the item based on that feedback. As a few others have said, that it might be a good idea to have those rating a skin leave a comment. That sounds reasonable to me. Hopefully they will be more constructive than the latest comment on my Aztec WindowBlinds "-.- i hate ancient peepz". Being an old fart, I had to go to the Urban Dictionary to find out what "peepz" means. I don't even begin to know how to respond to someone who says that he hates ancient people?
Oh well, all in a day's skinning
Oh well, all in a day's skinning
Double Zero
Reply #58 Tuesday, April 11, 2006 1:00 AM
Reply #58 Tuesday, April 11, 2006 1:00 AM
Great P.O.V Cyberworld ... and I agree for the most part...
For me DA was difficult to get used to and I am still learning the "ropes" over there..
There is an abundance of unbelievable art there that is just fantastic...
I do like both sites WC and DA, they are different so you cannot really make an honest comparison..you can like or dislike one over the other but to me they are just different sites that I upload to..alot of the skinners that are members here are also members there, which is cool because it gives a person the chance to see or download something from one of them that may not have met WC's moderation guidlines, or get it sooner than you can from WC since it is "stuck" in moderation..
Or if you do what I did and upload the wrong file..LoL..at least I got it uploaded correctly to one of the sites! BTW..Thanks FL for letting me know about that!
Numbers/ratings you get here.... you do get a bit better quality of interaction at DA...they are just "different" sites...
For me DA was difficult to get used to and I am still learning the "ropes" over there..
There is an abundance of unbelievable art there that is just fantastic...
I do like both sites WC and DA, they are different so you cannot really make an honest comparison..you can like or dislike one over the other but to me they are just different sites that I upload to..alot of the skinners that are members here are also members there, which is cool because it gives a person the chance to see or download something from one of them that may not have met WC's moderation guidlines, or get it sooner than you can from WC since it is "stuck" in moderation..
Or if you do what I did and upload the wrong file..LoL..at least I got it uploaded correctly to one of the sites! BTW..Thanks FL for letting me know about that!
Numbers/ratings you get here.... you do get a bit better quality of interaction at DA...they are just "different" sites...
Cyberworld
Reply #59 Tuesday, April 11, 2006 3:21 AM
Yup you are wrong...it's not the number it counts for me, i've stopped counting the numbers...it's the quality of interaction. (don't confuse the figural represantation, with the psychic gratification). It's just what people consider as communication...the one thing missing here. And this is just to clarify things, not meaning to pick a fight or anything.
Nope it ain't that kind of comments. Surely some are,a great part you may say (due to the fact that not all people have the ability or time to take a critique view), yet there are lots and lots of comments stating what it wasn't liked or what would be nice to add/change etc, plus i get actual e-mails stating what should change, what needs to be improved. Also the ones that say it was like most times state the why it was liked too. And the forum support with art critiques is a great system too. This whole thing means there are still lessons to be learned.
I don't aim to compare the sites, as you correctly state they are different, each one has its ups and downs (plus i said i was being subjective). Just stating what i liked and some general observations. Not aiming also on changes here. That is a dream NOT to come true. Just being honest to myself.
I admit there was a time when numbers and downloads where my focal point. Not anymore. I much prefer to talk with the viewers, actually get to meet them, what they like, their preferences, their artistic views and impressions, hobbies, what they do in life, what is art and what worries them. This part fulfils me more than any five-six zero figures downloads number. 
Reply #59 Tuesday, April 11, 2006 3:21 AM
| I could be wrong but that still seems to be all about numbers.... |
Yup you are wrong...it's not the number it counts for me, i've stopped counting the numbers...it's the quality of interaction. (don't confuse the figural represantation, with the psychic gratification). It's just what people consider as communication...the one thing missing here.
And this is just to clarify things, not meaning to pick a fight or anything.| If it's just 1300+ comments of "oh, that's great" or "geeze that stinks" with nothing there to back up the comment then it is still just about the numbers. |
Nope it ain't that kind of comments. Surely some are,a great part you may say (due to the fact that not all people have the ability or time to take a critique view), yet there are lots and lots of comments stating what it wasn't liked or what would be nice to add/change etc, plus i get actual e-mails stating what should change, what needs to be improved. Also the ones that say it was like most times state the why it was liked too. And the forum support with art critiques is a great system too. This whole thing means there are still lessons to be learned.
| I do like both sites WC and DA, they are different so you cannot really make an honest comparison.. |
I don't aim to compare the sites, as you correctly state they are different, each one has its ups and downs (plus i said i was being subjective). Just stating what i liked and some general observations. Not aiming also on changes here. That is a dream NOT to come true. Just being honest to myself.
I admit there was a time when numbers and downloads where my focal point. Not anymore. I much prefer to talk with the viewers, actually get to meet them, what they like, their preferences, their artistic views and impressions, hobbies, what they do in life, what is art and what worries them. This part fulfils me more than any five-six zero figures downloads number.
Jafo
Reply #60 Tuesday, April 11, 2006 7:21 AM
Reply #60 Tuesday, April 11, 2006 7:21 AM
| I don't even begin to know how to respond to someone who says that he hates ancient people? |
Just reply that one day he, too will be old and can eke out his twilight years hating the [ancient] person he has become.
It 'should' take the wind out of his sails.....sooner or later....
The way to deal with idiots is generally with calm, logical reason.....and the hope that they aren't quite stupid enough not to 'get it'.....
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Reply #41 Sunday, April 9, 2006 5:11 PM
I have to admit that at one time I felt the same way. However, I've noticed that many times, though not with all moderators, they will just automatically rate all skins a 6 no matter the quality or content. I'm not saying all, but I know there are some moderators who do that. Which leaves it up to the visiters, members, and subscribers to rate accordingly.