Has the RIAA gone insane?
RIAA: Copying CDs to your iPod not protected under fair use
Tuesday, February 21, 2006 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize News
In an effort to ensure that nobody is sympathetic to it, the RIAA's filing to the US copyright office indicates that it does not support people beig able to take their legally purchased CDs and copy that music onto their legally purchased iPod even if they are the only one using it.
Ripping music from CDs and transferring it to an iPod does not constitute fair use, according to a document filed by the major record companies.
In a filing to the US Copyright Office, the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) attempts to undo a statement it made in court during the recent successful prosecution of the Grokster p2p company.
In court RIAA lawyer Don Verrilli said: 'The record companies have said, for some time now, and it's been on their website for some time now, that it's perfectly lawful to take a CD that you've purchased, upload it onto your computer, put it onto your iPod.'
However in the Copyright Office filing the RIAA takes a contrary view.
'Nor does the fact that permission to make a copy in particular circumstances is often or even routinely granted, necessarily establish that the copying is a fair use when the copyright owner withholds that authorization,' it argues. 'In this regard, the statement attributed to counsel for copyright owners in the MGM v. Grokster case is simply a statement about authorisation, not about fair use.'
In other words, explained Fred von Lohmann, senior staff attorney for the EFF, a leading digital rights campaign organisation, if you want to copy a CD to your iPod, get permission first.
As one of the people who actually does not pirate music but buys it legally, this really gets on my nerves. At some point, EVERYONE becomes a criminal in the RIAA's book. The idea that I can't take my legally purchased Star Wars CDs and put them onto my computer to listen to in iTunes is absurd.
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Evorg
Reply #2 Tuesday, February 21, 2006 11:56 PM
Reply #2 Tuesday, February 21, 2006 11:56 PM
When cassettes first came out I copied all my LP's, that was legal fair use. It's no different with ipods. Seems to me that the RIAA aren't trying to keep the honest people honest, they are trying to make the honest people into criminals. 
Double Zero
Reply #3 Wednesday, February 22, 2006 12:15 AM
LoL, I remember that..Yeah, recording tunes for the car, travel and to give to friends so they could have some "cool tunes" as well...
The whole thing sure has become an issue, hasnt it?
"Make a copy, go to jail"
Boy that 3 strikes law really makes it interesting..LoL!!
Reply #3 Wednesday, February 22, 2006 12:15 AM
| When cassettes first came out I copied all my LP's, that was legal fair use. It's no different with ipods. Seems to me that the RIAA aren't trying to keep the honest people honest, they are trying to make the honest people into criminals. |
LoL, I remember that..Yeah, recording tunes for the car, travel and to give to friends so they could have some "cool tunes" as well...
The whole thing sure has become an issue, hasnt it?
"Make a copy, go to jail"
Boy that 3 strikes law really makes it interesting..LoL!!
ozmars
Reply #5 Wednesday, February 22, 2006 12:52 AM
Reply #5 Wednesday, February 22, 2006 12:52 AM
"Today the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) has released a press release regarding the transferring of electronic music to Portable Music Players.
In part the statement says that:
"...as iTunes downloads do not go directly to the iPod (or smiliar players) the transferring of a music file from iTunes to an iPod obviously constitutes making an illegal copy of the file. it is our belief that if Apple wanted legally purchased music to be playable on the iPod, all iPods would come with preinstalled browser software and wireless modems. Furthermore, we are currently investigating whether transferring the legally downloaded file from a computer's harddisk to the computer's speakers also constitutes illegal copying."
In part the statement says that:
"...as iTunes downloads do not go directly to the iPod (or smiliar players) the transferring of a music file from iTunes to an iPod obviously constitutes making an illegal copy of the file. it is our belief that if Apple wanted legally purchased music to be playable on the iPod, all iPods would come with preinstalled browser software and wireless modems. Furthermore, we are currently investigating whether transferring the legally downloaded file from a computer's harddisk to the computer's speakers also constitutes illegal copying."
Excalpius
Reply #6 Wednesday, February 22, 2006 12:59 AM
Reply #6 Wednesday, February 22, 2006 12:59 AM
The RIAA is getting desperate. They are losing on every front...and everyone knows it. Remember that, as a company, the RIAA gets its funding from the major studios. If they don't show "results", they lose their funding, and they get closed down. So, they'll do ANYTHING to keep their jobs, of course. They really don't care about the studios that fund them, or the recording artists they are supposed to be protecting, etc.
This will get bounced on prior "Fair Use" right out of the courts. Simply put, it doesn't past the "smell test".
This will get bounced on prior "Fair Use" right out of the courts. Simply put, it doesn't past the "smell test".
sixshot
Reply #7 Wednesday, February 22, 2006 3:28 AM
Reply #7 Wednesday, February 22, 2006 3:28 AM
I wanna chime in on this issue here since it got posted up here.
The RIAA has gone off the deep end and its image is so stained, so tainted, so filthy that no amount of making up will ever clean it up. There's just no point in abiding to whatever the RIAA wants the consumer wishes to do with their legally purchased music.
Let's disect the 'fair use' mentality for a bit. As mentioned, you can make a copy of a song from an LP record to be recorded onto an audio tape. And to the RIAA, that's considered fine. After all, the tapes are magnetic and the quality can degrade over time. And they also had no problem with those making tape copies for personal mixes, since the tape medium hasn't changed.
With the MP3, AAC, and WMA as compression technologies to make transporting music onto a variety of devices simple as well as space-saving, what makes this any different from the tape medium? MP3, even at its highest 320kbit/s bitrate, is still a lossy compression where audio quality is lost in order to gain such a high compression. It is the same with AAC and WMA. Both uses lossy compression where audio information is lost or discarded in order to better compress the music into smaller files. They are a digital representation of the audio tapes of long ago, except these files remain as long as the are within the confines of the audio device. They do not degrade over time. And they can very well last virtually a lifetime.
To say that I cannot take an audio CD that I have purchased and put it into my iPod is saying I cannot take any audio CD and put it into my walkman. It is atrocious and ridiculous.
On the other hand, the entire thing is moot to me, as current popular music of today tend to come and go. US music tend to be so boring and uninteresting these days. So my focus has changed to foreign music, where the RIAA doesn't have such an iron fist over what I do with music I'd have legally purchased. If the RIAA really wants to protect themselves, they need to adapt and stop being like a "Big Bully". Digital Rights Management my digital f'ing butt... what about MY rights as a music listener and customer?!
Now to go back to listening to music by Horie Yui, L'arc en Ciel, Asian Kung-Fu Generation, the pillows, Kaijura Yuki, and songs from the Jet Set Radio video game.
The RIAA has gone off the deep end and its image is so stained, so tainted, so filthy that no amount of making up will ever clean it up. There's just no point in abiding to whatever the RIAA wants the consumer wishes to do with their legally purchased music.
Let's disect the 'fair use' mentality for a bit. As mentioned, you can make a copy of a song from an LP record to be recorded onto an audio tape. And to the RIAA, that's considered fine. After all, the tapes are magnetic and the quality can degrade over time. And they also had no problem with those making tape copies for personal mixes, since the tape medium hasn't changed.
With the MP3, AAC, and WMA as compression technologies to make transporting music onto a variety of devices simple as well as space-saving, what makes this any different from the tape medium? MP3, even at its highest 320kbit/s bitrate, is still a lossy compression where audio quality is lost in order to gain such a high compression. It is the same with AAC and WMA. Both uses lossy compression where audio information is lost or discarded in order to better compress the music into smaller files. They are a digital representation of the audio tapes of long ago, except these files remain as long as the are within the confines of the audio device. They do not degrade over time. And they can very well last virtually a lifetime.
To say that I cannot take an audio CD that I have purchased and put it into my iPod is saying I cannot take any audio CD and put it into my walkman. It is atrocious and ridiculous.
On the other hand, the entire thing is moot to me, as current popular music of today tend to come and go. US music tend to be so boring and uninteresting these days. So my focus has changed to foreign music, where the RIAA doesn't have such an iron fist over what I do with music I'd have legally purchased. If the RIAA really wants to protect themselves, they need to adapt and stop being like a "Big Bully". Digital Rights Management my digital f'ing butt... what about MY rights as a music listener and customer?!
Now to go back to listening to music by Horie Yui, L'arc en Ciel, Asian Kung-Fu Generation, the pillows, Kaijura Yuki, and songs from the Jet Set Radio video game.
BlueLightBandit
Reply #8 Wednesday, February 22, 2006 7:57 AM
Reply #8 Wednesday, February 22, 2006 7:57 AM
Well this means that virtually every CD player I have violates "Fair-Use" as they do not merely "play" a CD directly, they transfer some info into a fancy schmancy "holding tank" so that it will play through even if I hit a bump.
Further, they have to go and do that ridiculous broadcasting thing where it tells me what track I'm on and how long it is.
Dang that 8 bit DAP, dang you Sony, dang you all to heck.
-El Bandito Azul
Further, they have to go and do that ridiculous broadcasting thing where it tells me what track I'm on and how long it is.
Dang that 8 bit DAP, dang you Sony, dang you all to heck.
-El Bandito Azul
gillon
Reply #9 Wednesday, February 22, 2006 8:35 AM
Reply #9 Wednesday, February 22, 2006 8:35 AM
You know that nice T-shirt you bought yesterday, well you only have the right to wear it in your own home. If you go outside you need to change. 
Majic7
Reply #10 Wednesday, February 22, 2006 8:55 AM
Reply #10 Wednesday, February 22, 2006 8:55 AM
Suppose they did win and made it illegal to copy and impossible to copy off any CD. The next day someone would have a bootleg out that they recorded with microphones taped to their speakers. A guy at work is always talking about some movie he downloaded with people in the theater getting up and walking in front of the camera. When it comes to free quality is no object. It's all about the free.
Pogo-
Reply #11 Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:17 AM
Reply #11 Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:17 AM
Its just the big man trying to push the little man away.
lilstarfish
Reply #12 Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:36 AM
Reply #12 Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:36 AM
"It's so convenient to have a system where everyone is a criminal"
- Adolf Hitler
"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is
the power to crack down on criminals. When there aren't enough criminals,
one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it
becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws."
- Ayn Rand
- Adolf Hitler
"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is
the power to crack down on criminals. When there aren't enough criminals,
one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it
becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws."
- Ayn Rand
Phoon
Reply #13 Wednesday, February 22, 2006 11:28 AM
Reply #13 Wednesday, February 22, 2006 11:28 AM
As far as I am concerned the RIAA can jump in a lake. I refuse to buy any CD until this type of behavior from them ceases. It's no skin off my back. I can listen to the radio. I'm not going to die if I don't have the recorded media at my disposal.
The only thing that is going to get their attention is if enough people boycott them in this fashion for a long enought time to SERIOUSLY damage their wallets.
The only thing that is going to get their attention is if enough people boycott them in this fashion for a long enought time to SERIOUSLY damage their wallets.
Adamness
Reply #14 Wednesday, February 22, 2006 11:42 AM
Reply #14 Wednesday, February 22, 2006 11:42 AM
I wish some of the muscians the RIAA represents would speak out on this. The music industry manipulates and steals from hardworking musicians, and then attacks the people who enjoy their music. They're trying to screw as many people as they possibly can.
sleepydawg
Reply #15 Wednesday, February 22, 2006 1:38 PM
Reply #15 Wednesday, February 22, 2006 1:38 PM
Musicians dont care, I think. Not in the USA anyway. I have art on the internet, it's free. You can do whatever you like with it, I dont care, as long as my name is on it. I just want peaple to enjoy it. But, If some label company wants to sell it to some guy for $200.00 and give me $50.00 well hey, I was giving it away, Why not? Then lets say they want that same guy to pay 2 cents for every person who sees it on his wall, 4 cents for every copy he makes, And throws a penny my way, Cool. Then after everyone has gone to court, has gotten sued, Talked and yelled. After the laywers and special interest groups have made their money, And its all gone away- Well Ill put my art back on the internet. For Free. 
sleepydawg
Reply #16 Wednesday, February 22, 2006 1:46 PM
Reply #16 Wednesday, February 22, 2006 1:46 PM
Kevison
Reply #17 Wednesday, February 22, 2006 1:55 PM
Reply #17 Wednesday, February 22, 2006 1:55 PM
I remember a friend was a little irrate over something like this and went to a website dogdoo.com or something like it. There he had a package of sterile dog poo shipped in a nice package to the offending lawyer. Since it was hermatically sealed and was not a toxin and etc... it was perfectly legal. The receiving lawyer however didnt think it was funny but there was nothing he could do about it. Crude but it got the point across.
People can band together and do wonderful things, however griping isnt one of them. I find it disdainful to read about RIAA and the escalating conflict about purchased material. I but music/art/etc for my use. If I want to wipe my wifes fanny with a piece of art thats my privilege (crude but a point) or if I want to listen to my music on my computer while I am working instead of having a 500 cd jukebox to handle it, again thats my choice.
Sheep dont speak.
People can band together and do wonderful things, however griping isnt one of them. I find it disdainful to read about RIAA and the escalating conflict about purchased material. I but music/art/etc for my use. If I want to wipe my wifes fanny with a piece of art thats my privilege (crude but a point) or if I want to listen to my music on my computer while I am working instead of having a 500 cd jukebox to handle it, again thats my choice.
Sheep dont speak.
Double Zero
Reply #18 Wednesday, February 22, 2006 2:09 PM
Missed the whole Metallica Controversay, did ya?
Reply #18 Wednesday, February 22, 2006 2:09 PM
| Musicians dont care, I think. Not in the USA anyway |
Missed the whole Metallica Controversay, did ya?
sleepydawg
Reply #19 Wednesday, February 22, 2006 2:59 PM
I Guess i did, although I did listen to Garth - and "The Eagles" talk about it. Guess some folk just cant have enough money. Garth did say he was sticking up for the up and coming artist.
Reply #19 Wednesday, February 22, 2006 2:59 PM
I Guess i did, although I did listen to Garth - and "The Eagles" talk about it. Guess some folk just cant have enough money. Garth did say he was sticking up for the up and coming artist.
Double Zero
Reply #20 Wednesday, February 22, 2006 5:14 PM
Reply #20 Wednesday, February 22, 2006 5:14 PM
Musicians in the US and practically everywhere else do care about it, after all it is "their art" and their way of making a living, im sure they have a concern or two about losing some of their "paycheck"...
I am not siding with the RIAA by any means, personally I think the whole thing is overblown. I would bet hard earned money that most of the musicians themselves have burned a few CD's, recorded a few tapes, etc, etc.. without "Express writtin permission" from the original recording artist....They, being in the profession, were probably some of the worst offenders..
Kinda like Gates and Piracy..LoL!
I am not siding with the RIAA by any means, personally I think the whole thing is overblown. I would bet hard earned money that most of the musicians themselves have burned a few CD's, recorded a few tapes, etc, etc.. without "Express writtin permission" from the original recording artist....They, being in the profession, were probably some of the worst offenders..
Kinda like Gates and Piracy..LoL!
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Reply #1 Tuesday, February 21, 2006 11:55 PM
Brad....that stance was, until just recently the EXACT LEGAL stance in Australia [and, I expect in the UK, from when much of our legal system stems]. There IS no 'fair-use' concession within Aussie copyright law/interpretation.
The difference here is that it was simply 'not enforced'.
Since the US/AUS free-trade agreements of late, between Howard and Bush...it means we have been put 'into step' with the US [they are bigger, ergo majority rules].
Our ACCC 'A-triple-C' [consumer affairs] only determined that a 'critical backup' of important WORK content was free to 'make copies of'....and music almost never would be included in that 'concession'...but a graphic/cad user could backup his Autocad or Photoshop proggies....[expensive to replace, etc].
As to whether this boat will float....probably not....as it never really did or worked in any prior copy-format...eg, Cassettes, etc...